Another Bellboy 21

[Helmar]

Nothing particularly photogenic today. Had several non-boat items to handle. All I did was clean up the area and do the stringers. Put in the two I laid up yesterday- that seems to have worked surprisingly well, with one catch- I had no good way to hold them down. So I put some more plastic wrap on the layup when it was in place, then I emptied one of my toolboxes on top. It seems to have been enough weight to force the ears down and maintain contact. We'll see tomorrow how it looks. Then I reinforced the other four stringers. So two new and four reinforced, and we' re in pretty good shape up to the third stringer from the front. I haven't done anything with the front three stringers yet. I want them to dry out more first.

I had been planning to complete the cockpit first, but I think I'm going to change my sequence a bit. Instead I think I'll get the cockpit frames final-trimmed and glassed into position, then focus on the cabin. I've got all the old cabinetry in the driveway, and some of it might dissolve in a good rain.

That's all for this weekend.

This is SO great that your doing your own work. Lots of the stuff I do is just the rough in structure work like your doing now.
People just don't realize how much time, effort, and work it really takes to do this kind of stuff.

I am about to finish up Mark Maguires 17 Skagit express that got a freshen up and a complete wiring job that I hope we will have for her first viewing at the Mason event.
Mark has been working two days a week side by side with me on his project so he now realizes what it really takes to get some of this stuff done.
I will post that project in time.

Its going to be a long road ahead but your going a Great job and Better progress.

Do yourself a favor. Every once in awhile, go back and look at your own posts and remember where you started from....
Its pretty amazing how your going to feel with the gratification that, You did this :BigHappy1:

[Guest]

I know the box is just an air box. I don't understand the logic of the airbox with the water inside and holes in the hull. But I guess it doesn't matter. I had been also thinking about making it a chain locker. Would be nice to have a place to store the anchor. On my last boat I make a tray which I tied down topside, but I prefer to keep that weight low.

Yes, I fortunately have the water tank, which looks in excellent condition. If you look at the first picture in yesterday's post, on top of the flotation chamber and behind the cordless drill there's a white something. That's it. I haven't put water in it yet. There was also the copper tubing, but that had a split. Water must have frozen in it. I'll use some plastic tubing for that. We've got much better stuff these days.

[TheBronze]

Wow. What a mess. I wonder, which hull number is it? Maybe it was the prototype?

Chain locker. A must have! In the 404, it will be in the forward V portion of the hull. Seems like as good a spot as any. You should have PLENTY of space in there for one.

[Guest]

TheBronze- Yes, I'm convinced this was some kind of prototype. Whether it was the prototype or just an experiment in cutting corners I don't know, but I'm convinced it wasn't a normal production model. Another example- I found a surprising number of parts, mostly inside the cabin, held together with nails. Not silicon bronze ringed boatbuilding nails, but ordinary Home-Depot-Grade mild steel nails. Do they really have a place in fiberglass boatbuilding? Maybe it was intended for boat shows- just to be looked at, not launched? But since I have absolutely no history, that will just have to remain speculation.

I've been trying to get California titles. The trailer has a valid title from Washington, with a VIN number of 33333. You'll be astonished to know we can't find that number anywhere on the trailer- I'm sure somebody made it up. So the California Highway Patrol has to review it and certify that it doesn't look stolen. The guy (singular) who does that in my area is on vacation till the first week of October, so after that date he'll give me a time and I'll haul over so he can look at it. If he gives it the O.K. then one more trip to the DMV and I'll have a title. I wish I hadn't bothered- I have no use for the trailer. I'll either give it away or sell it. If anyone would like a Dilly dual-axle trailer, please let me know. It looks right for about an 18 foot boat. 19 maybe.

The boat is worse. There's no hull number and no title. First they wanted me to get a letter from Washing state DMV saying they don't have a record of that boat. But since I can't give them a hull number or license number, I have this letter saying they can't do a search. It's almost Kafa-esque. I sent them the form with an explanation of why I can't give them either hull or license numbers, and they sent me a blank copy of the same form with the boxes for hull and license number circled.

So the resolution is that I'm supposed to come back to DMV next Monday with that letter, at which time they will send the entire package to Sacramento (state capital). Whether that will get me a title remains to be seen. I hope so. There's a procedure for posting a bond, but they won't let me do that. The boat isn't valuable enough. Ironically, the bond cost for a $5,000 boat (needs a bond) and a $1000 boat (no bond) is the same. If Sacramento doesn't give me a title I have a last hope. I can declare the boat abandoned and offer it for sale for storage costs. If nobody buys it (and I'd make sure they didn't), it's mine.

Time for a general comment. I'm not an expert in this. I'm feeling my way along. I think the most useful thing I can do is explain what I'm doing, and then as I proceed comment on what worked. Or didn't.

The initial templates and frames were a waste of time. I thought I would make the frames, set them in place, mark on them where the stringers were going to go. Then I'd put the stringer reinforcements in, and everything would fit nicely. Wrong. There was too much change in stringer shape due to the reinforcement. I now see that I spent more time trimming and fitting the frames than I would have to just make new templates and start over. I couldn't make the template for frame #5 until I had the cabin bulkheads and floor out. Attached is what this template looks like. Much more useful that the eariler templates I made.

Also, it was taking me forever to trim the bottom of the frames. That Okume 1088 ply is solid stuff, and an inch of it cuts like steel. I tried with my saber saws (I have two) and a rotozip spiral saw (horrible- not only slow but impossible to control.). About the fifth blade I tried with my Craftwman saber saw was wonderful. Not sure why I was having such trouble with the other blades. It would be better if I had a band saw, but I don't. Anyway, with this template and the correct blade, cutting and fitting took no time.

Next I checked to see if the frames were parallel. I have this.. not sure what to call it. Poor man's clinometer? Anyway, it's a bubble level on a protractor on a ruler. I set the angle from the front three frames, inside the cabin. Fortunately those are nicely parallel. Then I checked the other five frames. Within the accuracy of the bubble level they are parallel.

I've decided to do like Helmar did on the boat he's working on. There will be one small sump in the cabin, and the remaining area under the frames will be foamed. The cabin sump will drain into the main sump at the stern through two 1" PVC pipes. So the last (I hope) trimming was to mark and cut each of the five frames for the PVC. Note that the bottom of the cut has to be wide enough to slide down over the PVC, which will already be in place.

Last step for today was to coat the ends and first side of all five frames with epoxy. Tomorrow I'll do the second side, and when that's cured I can test-fit everything for (hopefully) the last time before epoxying in place.

[Helmar]

I don't think they will even use the hull number, maybe the old License number.

If your looking for the old bull ID tag number, look on the starboard side.
Inside the cabin, just under the starboard Cabin Front window, about half way down between the bottom of the window to the air box.
It should be able half way down, covered up with every coat of paint the put on the inside.

At least with that, you will have a good idea what production number she was and they were still experimenting with structure design back in those days.

Fact is, I can find big faults with all the boats that I have been into.
Nice part is, you are recognizing the faults and fixing them.
Good Job :GoodJob:

[Guest]

Interesting comment Helmar. Thank you. I've always thought of these old boats as the standard of excellent worksmanship, and it's been downhill from there. Maybe I should think of them less idealistically. But either way, I love the design and I love that it's a classic, and I'm going to fix the defects.

I looked on the port side under the cabin window, and the only number I can find is in the first photo. Certainly looks to me like a hand-scrawled '8'. This was aft of the airbox, at about the aft end of the curved windshield and forward of the first flat window. The second picture shows the same area after I roughly scraped off the peeling paint. The number is gone- it was applied over the first coat of paint. There's a light-colored rectangle visible in the center of that picture. The top layer of glass has delaminated. Probably got hit at some time. Another small repair job. The third photo is a bit forward- above the airbox. No numbers there that I can see. So I guess I have hull #8.

Question- does hull #8 mean the eight hull of that design, or eighth hull built? If the second, this probably is the prototype. Not that it makes any difference.

Another thing I saw while poking around here. The glass connection between the deck and the hull doesn't look very strong, and it's broken on the starboard side under the forward deck. See photo #4. So that's going to get reinforced all the way around. I think a putty of epoxy and milled glass fibers to make a larger radius, and two layers of glass tape should do it.

[Helmar]

The tag location is the second picture.

Could be number 8 as not too many were built.

The cabin windows - outer edges, were buckled and broken and popped out.
This required some structure change as the front of the cabin deck was, well sinking down into the cabin so to speak.
Meaning it was a weak design.

Let me see if I can find a shot of what we did to beef that back up.
I used some cribbing and blocking to jack the cabin back up until the window corners were relaxed, then went past that point just a hair and glassed in this structure beam that was custom cut to fit.
It was made out of 1 and 1/4" thick mahogany, but could be out of whatever you like.

[Sammamish1]

Don't know about the CA rules, but here in WA I took a picture of the hull number and was good to go with the licensing Dept. First picture shows location on starboard side, second is tag after cleaning. It was molded right in the fiberglass.

[Guest]

Thanks, Helmar and Sammamish1. The area where Sammamish1 has a tag is exactly the area where I said there was a delamination. I looked again and cleaned up carefully. There were two tags originally. The lower is just like the lower part of Sammamish1's tag. I can almost read it. The upper remains a rectangular gray area. So I cut off the overlaying lamination, and here's what it looks like now. There was a small visible defect, and obviously water leaked in. It was only one ply of glass anyway, and that's nowhere near 100% waterproof.

I'm going to let it dry, but I can't imagine I'm ever going to get a number off that. Expletive.

[Guest]

Well, a bit of good news. The state of California is going to give me a title with no further issues. That's a big load off my mind.

[Bflaherty]

California trailer titles?

I am wondering how California is handling small (single axle) boat trailers these days? My little boat is sitting on a California trailer with a permanent plate but now that I am trying to sell it I need to transfer the title to Washington but the WA DOL is claiming that I need the actual title...

The previous owner told me that the only documentation was the "permanent registration" which I have. Are there actually California titles for trailers?

Thanks,

[Guest]

I am wondering how California is handling small (single axle) boat trailers these days? My little boat is sitting on a California trailer with a permanent plate but now that I am trying to sell it I need to transfer the title to Washington but the WA DOL is claiming that I need the actual title...

The previous owner told me that the only documentation was the "permanent registration" which I have. Are there actually California titles for trailers?

Thanks,

Yes, California titles trailers. I had a permanent title on a previous trailer, but now they (we) no longer do permanent titles. We now require renewals every one or two years. Don't remember which. Anyway, we give the owner a choice. You can get a printed title for something like $14 more, or you can just use the registration slip and sell using a bill of sale.

It's pretty easy to get a duplicate title. If you Google on "california lost title" you'll find a lot of explanations. Here's one of the links:
http://www.dmv.com/ca/california/replace-lost-title

[Bflaherty]

Yes, California titles trailers. I had a permanent title on a previous trailer, but now they (we) no longer do permanent titles. We now require renewals every one or two years. Don't remember which. Anyway, we give the owner a choice. You can get a printed title for something like $14 more, or you can just use the registration slip and sell using a bill of sale.

It's pretty easy to get a duplicate title. If you Google on "california lost title" you'll find a lot of explanations. Here's one of the links:
http://www.dmv.com/ca/california/replace-lost-title

This looks like its gonna be hassle... I am guessing California isn't going to give me a copy of the previous owner's title, and I can't transfer it into my name in California then transfer to Washington. I wonder what's involved in registering it as a "home made" trailer here in Washington...

[Skagitguy]

Brian, Call the California DMV and ask the them the best way to go about it. Chuck

[Guest]

I've had a number of non-boat things to do for the last couple weeks, but when time permits I've been working on the floor frames. I've them all fitted, aligned, glued, filleted, and taped. I can now confidently say the floor will be strong.

Today and yesterday we're getting rain. At least everything aft the cabin is epoxy-encapsulated. It will be some time before I get the cockpit completed.