cabin heater questions

[westerner]

I believe this topic came up on the Fiberglassics forum and it delt primarily with 12 volt heaters and their hookup. Are there any other options as a cabin heat source? What i've done in the past is just simply layer-up clothing but some cabin heat sure would be nice after about 4 or 5 hours of winter salmon fishing. A friend had a late model Seaswirl with propane catalytic cabin heat, is this an option with my 16 express cabin or is 12v best? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Shakin' on the sound.

[Dave C]

You will never get any satisfactory heat from 12 Volts. A 1200 watt heater would require 100 Amps :eek: Thats as much as a starting motor, and they only run for a few seconds.
To get any kind of warmth will require some kind of propane catalytic cabin heater or the like.
Good Luck
Dave

[John Berg]

What I use is the portable "Mr Heater". You just screw on a small propane canister, throw a couple more on board for spares and your good to go. It heats up the cabin quick. Mine says its ok to use in an inclosed area but I dont leave it on when Im sleeping in my boat. Carbon monoxide will kill you and I dont want to take any chances. Its nice that its portable because you can also put it out on the deck by your feet,or move it from boat to boat to boat. Wow, I have to many boats. Have fun. John

[GregS]

I can tell you that if you are at anchor, and it is smooth water and nobody has been consuming anything that will make them clumsy, then a pyrex dish with many tea light candles will heat the cabin. My friends and I did this while we were in high school on his dad's old Bellboy. We put the pyrex dish in the sink and loaded it with those small candles. It seemed to work. Yes, I know that so many things could have gone wrong but we were desperate.

[Helmar]

On our 20ft Offshore (Belair) we too have a Mr Heater to use in it.
Only takes a Short time to get it warm up there.

If someone has a newer I/O power like Greg S, it is Fresh water cooled, what is to stop one from putting a car heater up by the cabin bulkhead?
Heat the passenger as well as defrost the windows, While running.

If I can figure out how to run another pump for my little Volvo for fresh water cooling, adding a auto heater up forward while we are running is going to be another project of mine.
If you have ever seen the insides of the Belair, you would see how many possibilities I have for placing it.

[chuckcarey]

Helmar & John, Is this the one you are talking about ? That would be great in the Farallon or even better in the Rosario being the cabin is small. Chuck


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_211577_211577

[Helmar]

Helmar, John, Is this the one you are talking about ? That would be great in the Farallon or even better in the Rosario being the cabin is small. Chuck


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_211577_211577



Hey Chuck.
That is the one I have.
If I remember, there were two sizes when I got mine. I chose to get the smaller one as I was going to use it in a smaller area.

I got mine at what used to be called GI Joes, now called Joes (I think)
It was on sale at the time.

[GregJ]

Chuck, I use the Mr. heater also. Come over and look at mine when you have a chance. They do turn off with excessive motion (safety) so they might not stay on while underway.

[Steve_Kiesel]

That's also what I used in my last fishing boat. Using it to heat the garage now, while I work on sprucing up the Homelite. I was at Joe's (GI Joe's) yesterday, they are selling them for $79. Great little heaters, many uses.

[Lootas1]

Joe is right about a car type water heater. I had one in my 24 foot Fiberform. Did a lot of winter fishing for blackmouth and it kept the cabin toasty warm. Wasn't enough to keep the windshield defogged though. Had a 12 v. fan on the dash for that. (Of course, we also had a 12 v. coffee percolator on the dash and a couple of cups of steaming coffee in the cabin as we fished.) Ah, those were the days!

[Tim_Mattson]

I`ve seen them in Diesil that work pretty good.The propane models are now coming with a 1`` vent that lets the moisture out more than fumes.
The danger of Propane is it settles in the hull if it goes out or leaks.Gas fumes and open flame are also not a good plan.
I have seen some really nice Electric stovetops in the Welded Alum Pilothouse hulls that are made by Wallas and are basically two electric burners for cooking.They have a slick top cover with fan that allows to blow hot air thru the cabin.It did require a housebank Deep cycle battery seperate from the starting motor but it can be done.
Pretty spendy for the latest and greatest but it is a multi purpose unit that can extend your season.Warms you up while you boil some water for Cocoa.
I still use my Mustang Suit when I want real warmth.
With an inboard ,you can plumb finned heater units like RedDots and fit them with a small 12volt fan to throw more heat.The hose itself can be coiled under floors to get radiant heat while the engine is running.Petcock valves can turn it off in summer.
TimM

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Here's another little propane heater that puts out few btu's than Mr. Heater, but also costs less. (I suspect that 3,000-8,000 btu's is more than most of us need inside our tiny cabins, anyway.) This one generates 1,500 btu's and runs a long time on the smaller propane cannisters.

As others have suggested, I'd only use them before turning in for the night. They may be rated for 'indoor use,' but I'd still be nervous leaving one of the things on while sleeping.

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Perfectemp-Catalytic-Instastart-Technology/dp/B0009PURCM/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1233425648&sr=1-14#moreAboutThisProduct

- Marty

[John Berg]

Chuck, Yes thats the one. Grab Gregs or let me know if you want mine to see how fast it heats up your cabin. Very stable unit and you can set it in a corner out of the way. Let me know. John

[chuckcarey]

Marty, On the Rosario i have my two 12 gal gas tanks up against the bulkhead. I just wonder if it's such a good idea to have the propane going away inside the cabin like Tim said " The danger of Propane is it settles in the hull if it goes out or leaks.Gas fumes and open flame are also not a good plan." I could always turn it on in the stern and then put it in the cabin ? I have really have not ever smell fumes inside the Rosario cabin. I would only use it when sitting still like at Kenmore waiting for the guys coming down the Slough. I don't want to go Ka-Boom ! Best,Chuck

[Nomad55]

If someone has a newer I/O power like Greg S, it is Fresh water cooled, what is to stop one from putting a car heater up by the cabin bulkhead?
Heat the passenger as well as defrost the windows, While running.



Some years back I installed an underdash aftermarket a/c unit with the suction throttling valve removed in a friends 19' boat I/O. It worked out well. The units have mounting brackets to hang the unit, dual fans, a lot of finned surface area to provide needed heat, and ajustable vent direction. This one was just hung from the dash. The next one I did we hind the unit under the bow and using 55 Chevy windshield defrost vents, very slim profile,to keep the cabin windows clear and ran pvc piping for remote vents around the cabin. The underdash units are becomeing a little scarce but I have pick up several on Ebay for various projects in the past.

[Sammamish1]

It uses the hot water off the block and a twelve volt fan, just like a car. We have one on Kathie's side in Rhapsody.

www.heatercraft.com/

[Captain Jack]

Drift boats often use the propane fired infrared heaters, but that's in open air. I wouldn't use one in an enclosed space. I've used the Mr. Heater propane type others have mentioned above with good results.

I've also seen I/O's tap off the FWC lines, run two hoses forward to the cabin and use a heater designed for the rear seats of a bus: basically a standard heater core housed in a sheet metal box with a 12V fan to move air over the coils. Works good, and simple to set up. Just remember to put a shutoff in the hot water supply line for the summer! ;)

The Cap'n

[westerner]

Thanks to everyone for their valuable first hand experiences and input. This forum is a great source of information. I hadn't heard of the portable heaters before and they sound like the ticket. Will definitely go with a propane unit for my circumstances, probably the small Coleman for the cabin and possibly the "Mr. Heater" if I decide to heat the cockpit area. Yesterday I was at the Oak Harbor Wal-mart and they had both of them. The Coleman was $58 and the Mr Heater was $85. They are compact and light and should be ideal for this use.
If one of these heaters was used enough, I wonder if a 12V LP sensor/alarm could be hooked up? My trailer has one and sounds off once in awhile if we do alot of cooking when we forget to open a small window for fresh air. They come with an off/on switch and can be shut off except when using propane so as not to drain the battery. They run about $50 and should be an easy hookup. Saw one that even had a velcro mount so you could try it in different areas to be sure it would stay dry and operate properly. A thought anyway.

[Tim_Mattson]

Kent,
I used to sell the "sniffers" by Xintex for bigger boats with LPG cooking/heating systems.They have solenoids that will kick the valve off ,I think at the tank itself or wherever it is better.The Large boats are required to have a "Propane Locker" and those sold for a bunch when set-up with the shut-off,remote control panel with LED s in Green for go and red for No Go.
I remember CNG being the fuel of choice but propane is so much more readily available.
I`m sure the $350.00 cost on the sniffer won`t excite you but watching for a used but useable set-up from an upgraded boat donor could happen.
Another option is a mostly Black version of the "Mustang" PFD worksuit.Mine doubled as a Sleeping bag (one trip I forgot the bag) and the blow up flotation device served as a nice pillow.Still cost a few hundred to keep warm that way but does kill two birds with one stone.
TM

[westerner]

Tim, thanks for the info, the "sniffer" is a bit pricey but, like you say, maybe you could run into an upgrade from someone. Second Wave possibly? Sounds like the Lp sensors are a definite possibility though, will look into that some more.

The Mustang PFD worksuit sounds very interesting. Not familiar with it but that would be worth looking into ,especially for trips like the proposed Alaskan trip Marty mentioned. I bought two Mustang automatic/manual inflating PFD's recently and was told they were the best. Very comfortable to wear, my others were uncomfortable so we didn't end up wearing them as much as we should.

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Chuck (and others)...

It sounds like the small propane heaters described (Mr. Heater and the Coleman unit) are going to be extremely safe as long as you don't go to sleep with them on inside a small, closed-up cabin. But to take the chill off, running them for awhile on a cold day, or before turning in for the night, I'd guess they are very tight--in terms of leaks--and basically foolproof.)

But in reading customer reviews, at least in regard to the Coleman unit, I noticed one important thing: The first time you fire up your new propane heater, be sure to do it outdoors somewhere...and let it run for maybe an hour before getting into a confined space with the beast, since they apparently stink like crazy during the initial break-in period, as paint is burned off of some surfaces of the heater. (In other words, don't fire it up for the first time aboard your small boat!)

I gather that the first-hour smells are not mentioned in the manufacturer's instructions.

After the initial test-run, it sounds like they burn clean and don't smell at all.

- Marty

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Chuck (and others)...

It sounds like the small propane heaters described (Mr. Heater and the Coleman unit) are going to be extremely safe as long as you don't go to sleep with them on inside the closed-up cabin. But to take the chill off, running them for awhile on a cold day, or before turning in for the night, I'd guess they are very tight--in terms of leaks--and basically foolproof.)

But in reading customer reviews, at least in regard to the Coleman unit, I noticed one important thing: The first time you fire up your new propane heater, be sure to do it outdoors somewhere...and let it run for maybe an hour before getting into a confined space with the beast, since they apparently stink like crazy during the initial break-in period, as paint is burned off of some surfaces of the heater. (In other words, don't fire it up for the first time aboard your small boat!)

I gather that the first-hour smells are not mentioned in the manufacturer's instructions.

After the initial test-run, it sounds like they burn clean and don't smell at all.

- Marty

[Steve_Kiesel]

That's the way I used mine for the most part. When camping on cold nights, I would use the Mr. Heater to heat up the tent to a comfortable level, turn the unit off and go to sleep. As others have said, I did not trust leaving it on over night in a closed area.

It doesn't quite heat up my garage to a comfortable level, but it does take off the chill. Point being, the Mr. Heater has many uses. A good investment as far as I'm concerned.

[BellBoyBob]

In my BellBoy Express cabin, I have used this 300 watt 12 volt ceramic heater. It will not roast the cabin but does warm it. I have not been on the water in really cold temperatures (45-50 degrees Fahrenheit minimum) The propane portable would do a better job, I am sure, but I do have this heater hard wired with an illuminated cabin switch so it is convenient and maintenance free. Here is the site and a picture of mine installed under the V-berth shelf.

Best,

Bob
http://www.safetycentral.com/12vodiwice30.html

[westerner]

BellBoyBob,
Your 12V system looks perfect for your use and I'm sure for many others also. Nice installation. I seriously looked at using that unit on my boat as I had a great place to put it where the CB unit used to be. The beauty of your system is it's out of the way and when you need to use it you can just flip a switch, no setup.

When a friend told me about his boat that came with a factory installed propane heater I decided to ask the club, and I'm so glad i did. During the winter here it's usually 25-35 degrees F on average in the A.M. so propane sounded like the option for my needs, especially fishing.

I went with a Coleman 3000 btu catalytic unit and tried it out yesterday A.M. when it was 34F. I wasn't underway, but it heated my small cabin in about 15 minutes, and I was able to open the cabin door, stand next to the steering wheel and warm up. That will be nice while underway. I found a way to secure the unit in the cabin so it should be usuable in light to moderate seas, or when a large wake hits.

Your right Marty, the fumes are strong the first couple of hrs, then only a light smell is detectible. It runs for 6 1/2 hrs on one 1 lb cylinder of fuel, a long day on the water for me. It stores in a carry-on case, with two cylinders, up in the bow handily. I'll be able to take it in my friends boat, or for other uses as well, an added bonus. I'm thinking it will probably come in handy at our next event! :)

[chuckcarey]

Just purchased the Coleman for $48. About the only time i will use it is in the boat cabin about 2 or maybe 3 times a year. Chuck

[waterguy]

I like the Origo Heat Pal alcohol heater. Rated at 5,100 BTU. Alcohol burns cleaner than petroleum-based fuel - 30 parts per million per hour of carbon monoxide. 5 hours of heating time from 1 quart of fuel = 20 hours per gallon. When a gallon of denatured alcohol costs about $12 at Home Depot, it compares favorably with the cost of propane cylinders. Top of the heater can be used as a small cook top. Refueling can be a little sloppy, especially in a rocking boat.

Initial expense is greater, but I got mine from Craigslist, almost no use, for $50. They're on eBay all the time.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C406%7C1066337%7C1066189&id=48897

With any heating system that does not exhaust outside, I would invest in a battery-powered carbon monoxide detector. So it'll cost you a hundred bucks or so. What's your life worth, anyway? The danger of carbon monoxide comes from 3 biological factors: (1) Carbon monoxide uptake into hemoglobin in the blood is 230 times more efficient than oxygen uptake, so even a minute amount of CO displaces a large amount of O2. (2) Because of (1), exposure is cumulative - long exposure to low levels is equivalent to short exposure to high levels. (3) Finally, the brain regulates breathing by the amount of CO2 in the bloodstream, not O2. So, your brain can be starved of oxygen (because so much O2 has been displaced by CO) to the point of hypoxia (passing out), and you won't even be breathing fast.

Nasty stuff. Get a detector.

[pathfinderz1]

I got one of those thing from Horbor Fright the you can fill the small propane bottleswith. You screw it on the big propane bottle that you use on the BBQ and turn it upside down. If you put the small bottles in the freezer for a few minuits and than screw the to the fill on the big bottle and turn it on till you can't hear the propane going in. and they are full. I uses a kecthen scale to check to see if the are full. You waigh a emty small bottle first and set the scale to 0 with it in the scale then waigh the one you fill. It only cost you about a buck a bottle that way.
Mike :)

[sparrowhawk]

I've been experimenting with a catalytic heater using the small propane bottles as a back up in my Airstream. Because of the fumes generated when you light it and how long they last I have started lighting mine outside and letting it sit for five or ten minutes before moving it inside. Makes a huge difference in the amount of smell and fumes. I am thinking I will probably try the same method eventually in the BB but will have to come up with a way to drop it into a mounted base and lock it down when in the cabin. And yes, I will have a detector to watch for fumes in the cabin as I also have a two burner alcohol stove for cooking. Actually that may end up being a good heat source that would eliminate the need for the propane. Barry