Transom Help

[MadMan]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and fairly new to boats in general. I was signed up on the Fiberglassic's old site but since the change I've been lurking on this one.

I bought a 1960 Harvey Star Whiz last summer and used it several times for fishing. I now have it in my garage to do some restoration and repair.

The question I have is on my transom, sometime in the past someone used 5 nails to secure the deck to the transom and, of course, water seeped in and there are now five spots of rotting wood. The transom is also slightly split on one side. Other than those problems the transom sounds and feels solid. Would it be feasible to just drill out the rot and fill with resin? The split I would squeeze resin in and then clamp together.



Thanks
MadMan

[trsexton]

I was just looking this up today check out www.transomrepair.com (http://www.transomrepair.com)

They have what appears to b a pretty good system for repairing rotten transoms

Tom

[timw]

Why not rip it out and put in a new one?..

[MadMan]

I was just looking this up today check out www.transomrepair.com (http://www.transomrepair.com)

They have what appears to b a pretty good system for repairing rotten transoms

Tom

That might be a little more than what I was looking to do, but that's the road I may have to take. Thanks for your response.

Why not rip it out and put in a new one?..

That just seems a little daunting, I'd like to avoid ripping it out but I also don't want to have to tear the boat apart again. I need to take another close look at the transom and go from there. Thanks for the response.

[Helmar]

Replacing the transom is really not that hard.
Patching a transom with that stuff and when it turns brittle you will Really have a job to do.

Marty puts on a Workshop that shows just how easy it really is.

Looking at your photos, its just making a pattern, then a couple sheets of plywood and maybe 3 qts of System Three (2 resin, 1 hardener).
Maybe a qt can of Evercoat lite.

Marty or I can explain how if your interested.

[Karl]

I'd go with a complete replacement. I've two of them now and it gets easier each time. Actually, if you have any woodworking skills, you can do it.

One thing that I found, is that the old wood may look ok on the top of the transom, but if there were any other attachments to the back of the transom you most likely will have rot in that area of the wood.

Good luckm

Karl

[MadMan]

Thanks for all the advice. I've got the book Runabout Renovation which explains how to do the replacement but it's a little short on pictures. I'm looking online for some good pictures to help me visualize the project. I've got to put together the tools and supplies before I get started, which may take awhile due to tight finances, but I hope to have it out sometime during this summer.

[Helmar]

Thanks for all the advice. I've got the book Runabout Renovation which explains how to do the replacement but it's a little short on pictures. I'm looking online for some good pictures to help me visualize the project. I've got to put together the tools and supplies before I get started, which may take awhile due to tight finances, but I hope to have it out sometime during this summer.

Hi John.
I know what you mean, its hard to draw pictures with words.

What steps are you not real clear on?
It is SURE ok to ask here as we learn from each other.
If you need a phone call, that can be done too.
We can recommend what products to use as well as the process if that makes you feel more comfortable about doing this job.

[stefrobrts]

If I could jump in here, I'm in the same boat, but a bit farther downstream. I have removed the deck and chipped out the rotten transom wood. The inner skin had been torn and patched badly by a PO, so I ended up removing that as well, leaving a 1-2 inch lip all around. I am ready to get a sheet of marine plywood, cut it to fit (I've made a template out of cardboard), and a friend has given me some West epoxy resin and hardener. I am also having trouble picturing how to follow the instructions in Runabout Renovation. I've even considered giving up, but I'd really like to see this through. I feel like it's so close to being done. Can anyone help me figure out the next step?

[Tim_Mattson]

Stef,
The transom pattern is usually right before you dive into the glass phase.
The key is to get grinding and prepping done all the way around the perimeter,say 3-4`` along each side and on the bottom.You want to fair the transom surface so there are no gaps that allow for separation when it gets used or towed.Grind thru all paint and halfway thru the glass,you`ll be adding a good layer so connecting is most important.
If the outer glass has any cracks or issues,one nice layer of cloth or chopped glass mat will tie it all together and then gives you something to build from.If perfectly flat ,than one coat of Epoxy(after sterilizing with Acetone until clean) can be rolled out.The back side of the transom should be wetted out once with a slightly thinned batch of Epoxy so it penetrates into the grain.Once both transom and new wood are wet,start clamping and screwing into position,working from the bottom middle and then up and out to the corners last.A mixture of epoxy and chopped glass strands or thickener can be used to creat a nice Non-sagging base for any corner voids.
Try to have no Clear epoxy pools,shoot for 50/50 glass to resin by either rolling with rollers or squeezing with flexible spreaders or stiff putty blade.
I usually plug all drain holes and old motor bolt holes by taping one side,then glassing the hole over from behind.A smaller screw can be used in each drain hole area and then used as a pilot hole once all glass has kicked fully.
I use the transom pattern to cut out a single pc of Woven Roving that can cover the inside exposed portion of the transom,PLUS extends 3-4`` on the bottom and sides,tying it all together and also sealing the corners.Pre-drilling your tie-down locations can give you a great place to bolt the corners together with bolts and fender washers or even another pc of wood in either pcs or full size.
Test fit and check for gaps before glassing anything,rehearse the install and then go for it.Once the wood is in,topping the face will make it better than the original which had only a single layer of cloth that almost always is weak after 50 years.Pre-drilling all fastener holes and then epoxying before install (use a toothpick in each hole to save the center point,pull while tacky or re-drill if they stick) will give the wood a solid set of threads.
Tim M
ps Madman,if only several holes are involved,I`d start the mildew treatment with bleach water and repeat until the black goes away.....if wood isn`t totally like peanut butter,you can inject thinned epoxy into old holes ,seams,some new holes ,and anywhere you can force it in.If it keeps drinking the stuff without spilling,then worry and dig a little deeper.

[stefrobrts]

Ok, you may need to dumb it down a bit more for me, I've never worked with fiberglass before (I've restored a couple old cars, but I did mechanical stuff, not paint or bodywork). But I think I understood some of that.

My transom's exterior wall is pretty flat and clean on the inside, but it does have quite a few extra holes in it, and a tear. It sounds like a layer to build on would be a good idea to start with, plus I could tape up those holes and fill them. Can you recommend specifically what materials I need to do that? Is it something I could get at our local auto parts store?

Would I grind it before laying down that first layer? Because the wall is very thin in places, there's not much to grind, which is why there's already a small tear in it.

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread - looks like I need more help than I thought!

[Tim_Mattson]

We seem to still be on subject so no Hijacking penalties to be enforced here.......
Ok ,you sound ready but I`ll fill in the blanks and will answer anymore you throw out there too.
You can spot fill any holes with Duraglass(or "Kittyhair") which is bondo with reinforced strands of glass that fill holes and won`t sag.The Evercoat light will be a smoother product,good for the exterior side of holes as it sands easier and "Featheredges" better.The Duraglass almost needs a file to shape and won`t blend on external use.I use 3-M Premium stuff as it is a Vinylester base which is what type of glass the old hulls are made with.Costs more but seems to stick better and is rated for underwater blister repair.
The Evercoat is just fine too,buy the Cream hardener in two colors,say Blu and White,that you can use it on external spot repairs and it will hide better.Blu is easier to see what mix you got and white is tougher to know when right.Practice with blu then use white when needed.Bondos are quick and speed things up.....but,once you master thickening epoxy,you`ll use less of the bondo filler,which is best for final hole filling exteriors.

Fixing holes:if you camfer the edges from inside and then fill from this wider side,the plug will hold better as it wedges itself in place.Tears or cracks should have a layer of glass that goes beyond the repair an inch or so,with any more layers another size bigger.You can rough up the surfaces prior to wetting out with 36-80 grit so you end up with a good bond.
A rasp will save paper and works good in the corners.
You can also tape the holes inside and patch it from outside but having it done first will help the plug be trapped in place.
If your shell is that thin,do put a good layer of Woven roving on first,then cap it with the transom wood and squish it down before it all kicks.Some thickened epoxy thru-out the edges and corners will eliminate voids which allow water to wick into the transom edges.Builder`s rarely worried about this and you can do better than they did.
Once all screws/clamps are in place and you see equal amts of resin coming out of all edges,you can wipe all drips down with acetone before they cure.
The corner gaps will sometimes need a pass with the thickened epoxy which is made from Microballons,Gap filler or Chopped glass sold by Fiberlay,West or at better auto paint suppliers.You mix it to a desired thickness ,with peanut butter being the gravity-defying flavor,and the mayonnaise being a smoother type for fairing holes on the exterior.Too much thickener makes for weak product so 50/50 is the max ratio on any you mix up.More glass than epoxy means water can wick into the glass.
This keeps your epoxy from flowing to the keel and causing brittle glass and makes for less wasted epoxy.Fumed Silica is also good to use on the wood as it helps it bite into whatever surface is next to it,also called an Adhesive filler.
The additives do make the epoxy kick faster so be ready to apply it.A Tongue depressor will make the corners form a nice soft radius or "Fillet" which makes for nice looking work that will be easier to prep and paint.
The soft rounded corners allow you to squeegie tabs or pieces of glass that cover the corners and connect your transom to the side of the hull.
They sell rolls of glass mat cut to 2-6`` widths that make the work look clean but I`ve found tearing the glass by hand and letting the strands lay out wherever will blend it so it disapears.This works only on the mat or chopped strand glass,Cloth or Woven does need cutting with very sharp scissors.
Start the job with cleaning any oil or grease before any sanding,wipe with acetone repeatedly ,then test with clean masking tape which should come off with no dust or dirt.Test all corners especially.
When all done epoxying,cover the hull and heat it with lights or small heater until the whole thing sets up.
Realize some hardeners won`t kick below 60` so use the one that will go down to 50`,then use heat to make it work.Last summer it was too hot on some days and I used trays of Ice water to keep the epoxy "Idling" while I was working a few repairs at once.
West Marine will send you a booklet with most of this info and is where I learned alot of it.
You are at the point where you`ll soon see it getting better so don`t back out now.And keep asking the questions,others may learn and join the party.
Tim M

[stefrobrts]

Ok, I think that's clearer. I'll get the West Marine booklet and see if that helps. I'm sure I'll have more questions soon.

My husband would like me to get everything ready to go, then tackle it in one weekend and get it over with - soon. He's even willing to help!

[MadMan]

Ok, I'm going with the replacement. Found rot down towards the bottom where some screws had been put in. I started pulling up the floor near the transom and found wet, rotting wood so it looks like I'll be replacing the floor also.

I think the floor was replaced once before and I do believe it was done different then the factory. 1/4 inch plywood was just glassed to the bottom with no stringers, ribs or foam. I would like to do the job right but don't have anything to go off of. I know that I will have to run two stringers down to the transom but would like any advice on how to do it. I think the hardest part is fitting the wood to the contour of the boat and still have a flat top to lay the floor on. What's the best technique to put these in?

Thanks

[Tim_Mattson]

Now we`re getting serious.
Block the hull at rear corners and center keel with no twist.Make sure all grinding and loose glass,grime and old wood is gone and cleaned.
I make patterns with doorskin or light wood and basically start an inch or so higher than the actual floor on a rough-in,then cut the basic shape out with it still squared off on the bottom edge.Work from the Taller side of the stringer
Use a pencil and trim the stringer pattern until pretty true to the bottom.
Then copy it onto the final wood of say 3/4-1``,(wider is easier to hit with screws for the floor )and clone so you have two pcs the same shape but square.I clamp them tall side up,then camfer the bottom edge with a skilsaw while wearing good gloves and the saw blade all the way out.Then do the other one to match.
A brace between the loose stringers will help keep them from flopping around,you can use deck screws to hold in place.Marking out the stringer locations onthe hull bottom with tape or pencil will give you reference points.
If the stringers end up too tall,then take off from the bottom accordingly.A small crown is actually ok as you will drain water from the middle which is just fine.
Small "tacks" of Glass cloth can hold the stringers while you glass them in on the outer edge from front to back.A 1`` x3`` pc of cloth wetted with "hot" epoxy can hold amazingly well and is easily glassed right over with a full length pc.If crooked you simply file it until it breaks and then redo.You will need several tacks so you can squeeze excess glass without stringers moving.
I commonly only see the glass on one side stringers but do both and know it will last as long as the first ones.
We`ll talk about using gap fillers and adhesives to get the stringers truly attached ,then the trick to getting screw holes onto the new floor.
They do sell Composite foam stuff you trim with safety blades and bevel with a Shurfom cheesegrater which can make this really easy but does cost some.
Dig in and send your needs.
Tim M

[Helmar]

One of the things we need to do is put together a Show and Tell on some of the ways to do Transom repairs.
This is something we can sure put on the website don't you think?
We will become famous as the only other place I can find this is in books.

Of course, this will be one of the things we well put as so Members only can get to. (Need to get working on the Members and Guest area.):rolleyes:

[timw]

OR, produce a video, step by step...19.95 plus shipping and handling. Of course members would recive a huge discount.

[Steve_Kiesel]

Good ideas. Over time we can put some of this information under the restoration link on the main page. Seems to be a lot of questions on window replacement that could go there as well.

It's this kind of info that will make the website have more value for all of us. I noticed we have over a hundred members now, from all over, not just the NW. That's goodness.

[Helmar]

Hey Ole.
Don't you have the step by step transom build up for that sweet little Bell Boy that you did a hull up resto on for John Dellanoy?
Seems to me you had pictures of those steps.

I can look to see what I have on the transoms that I did to see if I have them too.

If I have the pictures for the step by step, you can put those slick words to them.:o

[stefrobrts]

Thanks for the recommendation to read the West Marine brochure. There's a 91 page document for free download on their website, and it has step by step instructions and lots of illustrations. It's definitly clearer to me as to what I need to do now. Just need to figure out how to work with epoxy and dive in and start doing it I guess.

[Helmar]

See, its not hard at all.
Rubber gloves, don't forget those ;)

[Tim_Mattson]

Stef,
I like to work up to big jobs with little test batches on smaller spot repairs every hull has along with most transom repairs.
Use the backside of the new transom as a work bench ,then you can pour out the larger batch right on to any recent drippings.Every repair is different and you need to match whatever material you see with like material.....
Yesterday I was fixing cracked Cloth and found the same stuff blended very nicely as the Chopped and woven glass would have shown up.
I`m "training" my first layer of transom wood to curve as the hull does by leaving it screwed in place a day or two before wetting it out and Epoxying it in place.
Also "Balance " any repairs especially at rear corners and do both sides if it looks like one will be stronger from a repair.
Layers of gloves will be your best tactic,I buy two sizes and use smaller ones to start,covered by up to 3-4 pairs that can be peeled away as you get messy.Nitrile gloves will stand up to Acetone but are pricey.
Tim M

[ternkeim]

I might as well jump in here and ask th $1,000,000.00 question.

I do not have the time or the inclination to try this on my own so...

Who will do it for me and at what cost to me?

Terry B.

[ternkeim]

Well...
This morning I removed the screws holding the transducer on, and the screws that were filling the holes from the old transducer (from before I got the boatand I've had it for over 20yrs.).
Imagine my surprise and unltimately my disdain when I got a full measured cup of water drained out of the holes! ...And that's before it slowed to just drops!!
I've not drilled holes yet as I'm afraid of what I'll find. I know me very well and I know I won't stop until it is fixed and completely watertight again. (Sometimes I hate myself!).
All this and I've still got to locate a windshield! I'm not sure this boat (or any boat) is worth this much trouble.

I am filled with chagrin!!!!!!!!! :(
Terry B.

[Helmar]

Its getting to the point we might have to address this advertising on the board stuff here....
We have Several members that can do this kind of work.


I think we need to get into this and just Spell it out.

Maybe I can put in a new thread and call it Marketing your services or something to that order...

For now, if anyone wants to just Email you about what they can do for you, I suggest Go for it.

[sparrowhawk]

Joe
How about just listing them in the resource guide showing them as members and what they do? I would certainly check with someone that is a member to help me if needed before looking elsewhere. I don't think any of the other businesses listed are paying for the listing there are they? Barry

[ron12]

Stef,
I like to work up to big jobs with little test batches on smaller spot repairs every hull has along with most transom repairs.
Use the backside of the new transom as a work bench ,then you can pour out the larger batch right on to any recent drippings.Every repair is different and you need to match whatever material you see with like material.....
Yesterday I was fixing cracked Cloth and found the same stuff blended very nicely as the Chopped and woven glass would have shown up.
I`m "training" my first layer of transom wood to curve as the hull does by leaving it screwed in place a day or two before wetting it out and Epoxying it in place.
Also "Balance " any repairs especially at rear corners and do both sides if it looks like one will be stronger from a repair.
Layers of gloves will be your best tactic,I buy two sizes and use smaller ones to start,covered by up to 3-4 pairs that can be peeled away as you get messy.Nitrile gloves will stand up to Acetone but are pricey.
Tim M

tim is that the glassply spalsh well? it looks just like the avalon i picked up few weeks ago we are gonna replace the transom it's pretty bad.

[Tim_Mattson]

Ron ,
That was a "Trailorboat" that I drug home for $50.00.It was a Balsa core bottom with no stringers and had a rotten transom.I opted for the Hack method and cut out the thin splashwell out with two cuts in each corner that were later doubled up with a patch of woven roving from below.
The boat is now moored on Lake Union and owned by the diver,BJ, who brought my Seafair up from the depths.........
Without removing the top shell ,you either get serious and cut,or pc it in which is never a good thing.....
Glasspars all seem to have a serious curve to the rear so it takes good Hull blocking and some "Lofting" type measurements where you check numbers from X + Y lines you get to try to create from nothing.
You`ll also get to use thinner wood in many layers so it will even bend.
If you DO remove the top shell,then you get to hope you have it right as you will find the curve may have changed as you assemble the top.
A cross brace and template of some sort may help or just be careful all along the way.
TM