Bell Boy 404 Express Restoration

[TheBronze]

Well, after more deliberation and a beer drinking evaluation with a buddy, I think I have it figured out.

There isn't any glass layup on the inner transom. There is some that holds the braces that come off the stringers, and obviously in the bilges, but it's just bare wood for about half that height. Sadly, that wood is in great shape and shows no sign of moisture damage. Oh well. Out it goes....

The plan is to replace the floor before anything else. It's a mess and has the original wood plus a layer of ply on top that someone put in in lieu of replacing it the correct way. I'll put new wood in up to about 2 feet off the transom. Once that is in place, I'm going to have to cut the rear deck off in order to get to the inner transom. This will allow access to the transom from the inside and should be roomy enough to get the work done that is needed. While the original wood wasn't glassed in the rear, I do plan on laying the whole thing up properly. The existing transom is 1 3/4 inches including the glass on the splashwel, which screws into the wood. This setup seems to be fairly sturdy after all these years and I don't see a need to make it any wider. I do plan on putting some reenforcements in the lower area of the transome below the splashwell on the inside. This will allow some extra strength where the lower engine mount bolts go and not mess up the re-mounting of the splashwell and the lines of the deck.

Once it is all finished the cut (and cleaned up) splashwell will go back in place and get fastened and glassed as needed. It's a huge job, but the end result will be worth it for sure.

But, first I need to replace the axle and springs on my broken trailer!

[Tim_Mattson]

John ,
I always regret not putting in a lowered sump area for floors and you stopping short of the transom on the floors is where you could use a small dam (with drain tube glassed in before install of course) to create one in your area of choice.
Another tip is to replace or remove and re-inforce the rear underside of the gunnels for cleats and rear light base while you do your new transom.Pre -rigging it as you "dry fit" the new splashwell may also save headaches later.
Bleach can save some wood you think was gone,but being open and not covered may have actually saved it.
Then again ,I never ,ever leave it that way.Thinned Epoxy,Chop strand,then Woven or Cloth or both.
Try tearing the chop strand when blending to the old.Works great in the rear corners.
TM

[Lootas1]

Tim,
What do you use to thin epoxy? I bought some System 3 that came in plastic tubes with ends to cut off so you could squeeze out the epoxy. I cut the ends and squeezed and nothing happened. So, I unscrewed the cap and managed to pour out some of the honey colored part (which was about the consistency of honey). Then I went to the gray part and I couldn't squeeze any out even with the cap off. I dug some out with a putty knife. I managed to stir it together and it became somewhat workable but the mounting of my sonar inside the hull called for pouring a quarter inch of epoxy inside a caulk dam. There was no pouring the stuff. I spread it around with the putty knife and it ended up somewhere around a half inch thick. I then pushed the sonar into it and quit pushing when I guessed there was around a quarter inch of epoxy under it. The whole thing works but I still have about 3/4ths of the epoxy in the tube and think it will be most useful if I can thin it when needed.

[TheBronze]

Tim, I'm with you on the bilge area. The 404 has a nice lowered area on either side of the main stringer, with the bilge drain sitting lowest. I plan on putting dual pumps there. The rest of the space inbetween the stringers will be filled with closed cell pour foam, so that should provide a sufficient water dam for the remainder of the hull.

[TheBronze]

In other news, the floor is up. Took most of Saturday to get it out, but its down to the stringers except for the rear most part of the deck in front of the transom (as planned). So, what I am left with now is an empty hull with just a transom, main bulkhead and forward bulkhead keeping the hull from changing shape too much. Yesterday I went in and did some clean up and then started grinding away at the left over glass in the cabin. Its pretty much done at this point and I was able to take a number of measurements and get a good sketch of the cabin and how I want to lay it out.

One interesting thing I discovered was that in the port side stringer, the outer most has a hole in it. Not a big deal, it's not even the size of a dime. However, it looks like there is wood in there? The rest of them seem hollow when I thump them, even the same stringer on the starboard side. Any ideas?

See the attached pics for fun. The termites were living in the wood next to the sink.

[TheBronze]

So, I've been busy here and there on the 404 in the past month or so. I bought a costco shelter, set it up in the side yard, and have moved the old girl under it. She is now sitting dry and I have rigged up lights and my portable radio in the shed.

I've been pulling various bits of hardware off of the deck, most of it original, ruined and in need of replacing. I'll see what I can pick up off of ebay here and there or from the local marine trade shops.

Two items are of interest that I'd like some feedback on if anyone cares to chime in.

The hand rails on the upper deck. Both of them are physically intact. However, they both appear to have been painted at one point (not a bad job from the looks of things) and were originally chrome plated (very cheaply it looks like). These things are brass or bronze and will have to be either painted again, or re-chromed. I've seen some numbers thrown around on chroming here that lead me to believe it will be in the neighborhood of $100 a piece. Does that sound about right?


Water fill cap.
This is the one piece of hardware I can't get off the deck. It's loose, but the attachment under the deck seems to be on there pretty good. I've tried to pull back the fiberglass of the cubby but can't get much clearance to even look. Short of cutting the cuddy out, is there any other way of getting in there that comes to mind?


Oh yeah, I also figured out what year she is. Despite my prior guessing that she was a '61 based on the build plate, I determined last weekend that she is a '59. If you look over the brochures on the fiberglassics site, there are little details the helped. The '58s don't have a hatch (I think) and the gun'ls sweep up at the stern (also not called 404s from the info in the brochure, but just express). The '59s and later have the hatch but the steadily declining gun'ls. The side windows changed shape in 60 as well. For the '58/'59 model year, the angle is under cut. In 60, they changed it to a forward cut. Maybe some of you already knew this but it was an exciting discover for me.

Thanks!

[BellBoyBob]

water fill fitting

Hi john:

On my '60 404 EX, I have the water fill cap on the port side. I have the boat tucked away in storage now but I think I remember that the plate on the outside was mounted with three screws into the fiberglass. You need a key to unscrew the cap to put a hose in the hole to fill the water tank. There is a galley cubby used to store eating utensils (dinner plates). Inside the cubby, the fill fitting is accessible. On the underside is a threaded pipe about 2" in length. Clamped on to that is the auto hose that goes from the underside of the fitting to the top of the water tank. If your boat is configured the same way, you should be able to see it clearly with a flashlight. I loosened the clamp and pried off the hose with a screw driver. Once the hose was off, the entire fitting was easy to remove from the hull. I will see if there are come detailed pictured on my computer to attach here.
Hope this helps.

Bob

[TheBronze]

Bob,

Thanks for the reply. Nice looking boat! I love how you mounted the speakers. I've been thinking on where to mount mine and I really like that setup. Might just have to copycat that one.

I have all the original interior equipment in the boat (removed), so I know what you are referring to with the sink, etc. Howeer, my cuddy doesn't look like yours. I have the forward oval opening like yours, but aft of that, it is closed up to hide the tank. I am going to be cutting the glass that mounts this side of the cuddy lose. This will give me access to the fitting, and will also allow me to remove the rub rail bolts in that space (there are 2 or 3 that I just can't even begin to get a wrench on the way it is set up. I intend to remove the entire rail so I can get right down to the joint with my sanding prior to painting. Good times!

John

[BellBoyBob]

John could you send me pictures of your interior? Id be interested to see your setup.

Best,

Bob

[TheBronze]

Haha, there isn't much to see right now. This last week I pulled off both port and stbd cubbys and also removed the water tank (necessary to remove the rub rail as well as for later bulkhead replacement). I'll snap a couple of shots of the cubbys tonight and post them up here.

The water tank was a bear. Once I got the cubby off, I could see and get to the mount for the filler. Ya, metal on metal, rusted solid. Not even a hint of a hose clamp visible. So I had to cut it off. My plan over the winter for that part is to cut/remove the top layer of glass, see about coating the inside with something that will make water potable (ideas?) and then re-seal the whole thing with either a new top, or remove the fittings on the old one and glass in new ones. It's just the right sized job that I can do it in the garage with some heat and get the resin to cure.

[TheBronze]

Bob,

Here are shots of the setup. Sorry I didn't get them sooner, but taking pictures in the snow....

First is the two together, port on top, stbd below. 2nd has a shot of the water tank. Third and fourth are pt and stbd interior shots. Last is a snap of the bow where I did some sanding.

[TheBronze]

With the removal of both cubbys and the water tank, it has become evident that my wood replacement will be a little more extensive than I originally thougt. It's funny the things you don't see when you can't see them.

Construction on this boat is very interesting. When I removed the port rub rail bracket I was a bit surprised to see that there really isn't much there in the way of a lip to hold the deck to the hull. It sort of just sandwiches the two parts together and thats about it. Looking at the construction, it seems like no one component is responsible for keeping the hull rigid. The main bulkhead is in two pieces, the amidships 1/4 bulkheads tie that section to the floor but also supports a full length piece of wood that runs from the splashwell all the way to the end of where the cubbys live. It seems that this piece is intergal to holding the deck and hull together more so than the rub rail mount like you see on Glasspars. And of course, the transom holds the stern together.

The full length wood that runs on both sides is pretty rotten up by the windows (surprise!) and will have to be replaced. All of it. The painful part is that I am going to have to sand all the way down, then re-assemble the rub rail bracket before I do any work on the floors. I don't want to glass anything in with the deck lose, so it's going to have to be re-installed. Then it will be removal again so I can do the transom - yes, at this point I might as well save the cutting and refairing work that I was planning on doing and just cut the deck lose at all points and move it forward while I rebuild the stern. Once that is done, I can re-attach the deck and install the new full length wood. Whew! Going to be a busy spring...

Here is a shot of the port rub rail, removed and sitting on my work bench in the garage. I did a test on one spot to see how well it will clean up. Pretty good from the looks of things. Long and painful though having to start out at 60 grit...

[Marvelous]

59 inside

Here are a several pics of my interior. It's a mess but oh well.

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[TheBronze]

John,

Thanks for the interior shots. I have been meaning to ask you for some so I could get a look at the headliner - which you don't seem to have! So that begs the question: Did they come with headliners or was it just bare glass?

Bob, you should have a pretty good idea of the '59 interior at this point!

[Marvelous]

John,

Thanks for the interior shots. I have been meaning to ask you for some so I could get a look at the headliner - which you don't seem to have! So that begs the question: Did they come with headliners or was it just bare glass?

Bob, you should have a pretty good idea of the '59 interior at this point!

Mine did not have any interior at all so i kept it the same just painted cause i am CHEAP!