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Bell Boy 404 Express Restoration

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  • #76
    Bob,

    Thanks for the compliment! Since I've never done a whole restoration I'm thinking a LOT about what I do and how. It hasn't always gone perfectly, but I'm pleased with how it is going for the most part.

    Regarding my floor. Have a look at the shots on page 4 of this thread. The floor is actually 5 pieces. I used two full length pieces for the forward section, one piece on end for the mid to stern and then two smaller pieces to fill the spaces between the giant transom braces. The center stringer is big enough to handle two rows of screws for attachment and I wanted the largest pieces I could fit. It didn't make sense to do the whole thing with sections as it would be more gaps for failure and flex. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out.

    For attaching, I used 8oz cloth at all the seams to seal it up prior to filling with foam. After all the foam was poured, I covered the entire floor with 1708 biaxial. This is 17 ounce mat on the botom, with a secondary 3/4 oz mat on top. It is really thick stuff and hard to work once it gets wetted out. I used a 56 inch roll for the center line then hit the sides with 36 inch. This did a good job of tying the floor into the hull and gave me a good amount of glass going up the side of the hull for more strength.


    A couple of tips for you based on my experience with the 1708 if you decide to use it.

    Don't try and do the entire floor in one large roll. The mat is really hard to work in that length and tends to drift. I reccomend starting at your stern and running perpendicular to the transom. You will get 36 or 50 inch widths depending on which size you get. As you build the layers, you will get a natural step in the glass which should help water flow when cleaning, etc. Also, it will allow you to work with smaller batches of resin. If you do go this route, you'll need to do the sides first so that the center set is laying on top of the sides for drainage.


    For your foaming, i'm not sure if this will be an issue or not, but I used construction adhesive (liquid nails) on my stringers prior to putting the floor down. I didn't want the floor doing any wierd bulging due to the foam getting into the cracks. Seemed to do the job and wasn't too expensive to do. Oh, and as I mentioned before, as you mix your foam you are going to have leftovers of a variety of sizes in your containers. Don't throw them out. Rather, break them down to chunks that can fit through your fill holes and shove em in! you'll waste less foam that way.
    John Forsythe

    '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
    Past Affairs:
    '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

    Comment


    • #77
      Weekend update.

      Got some work done this weekend, but not much.

      I've gone over the cabin again and filled a last few holes that needed some attention. The transom was also looked at and I filled a variety of holes and scratches. I'll be spending what time I have this week getting all of that faired into the body. If all goes well, I should be priming this weekend or next week at the latest.

      As I mentioned before, I will lay down several coats of primer and then block down. Once that is done, I'll more than likely tear down all the plastic wrap I have that is in sad shape, give the whole space a thurough hose down to remove the dust from all the sanding and put some fresh, dust free liner up in the shed. May is the target for getting paint on. We'll see if I make it.
      John Forsythe

      '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
      Past Affairs:
      '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

      Comment


      • #78
        Update.

        First coat of primer is on the deck! Over the last couple of weeks I was able to get the majority of holes filled and faired. It is decent enough for now. After getting the first coat on, I can already see areas that need filling, which is a good thing! Once the 4th coat of primer goes on I'll tackle any fills and then start on final blocking. I have 5 quarts of Rustoleum primer on order so I'm in a holding pattern for now. Once it gets in, I should be able to get the next 2 coats on in a single day. It takes about 4 hours for the stuff to dry, so if I start early in the day I can get two down.

        I'm holding off on any pictures until I get the second coat on. The first coat is a bit see through and doesn't look all that great!

        In the mean time, planning is starting back up for the helm and I may tackle that this weekend while waiting for primer.
        John Forsythe

        '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
        Past Affairs:
        '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

        Comment


        • #79
          I would end up filling pin holes even into the second coat of primer.
          Keep up the good work :GoTeam1:
          Helmar Joe Johanesen
          1959 Skagit 20ft Offshore, 1959 Skagit 16ft Skimaster,
          1961 17ft Dorsett Catalina.1958 Uniflite 17 ft
          Outboards: 2.5 Bearcats, 3 50hp White shadow Mercs
          2 40hp Johnsons, several smaller Old kickers for a total of 12

          Our Sister club
          http://www.goldenstateglassics.com

          Oh, and Where is Robin Hood when you need him??

          Comment


          • #80
            Is there an advantage to doing it earlier vs later in the setup process?

            I'm on indefinate hold on the priming anyway. My order is stuck in IL due to bad weather. Been sitting there for 5 days now! Oh well, It isn't critical and I'd rather the drivers be safe.

            In the mean time, I have been working on the helm with the invaluable help of my friend Ron, owner of a beautiful 63 Seafair Sedan. We have most of the pieces cut up and just have some routing to do before we assemble the whole thing. It is going to be cool. I'll post pics of that as well when it is put together. And in the mean time of that project, I am also working on rough drawings for the nav station opposite the helm. It will get a similar treatment like the helm but will have a cabinet on it for storage.
            John Forsythe

            '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
            Past Affairs:
            '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

            Comment


            • #81
              Primer came in 2 weeks ago. Turns out, the order was screwed up. I received 1 can of primer and 4 cans of black paint. After messing about with the return and re-ordering, I received my 4 additional cans yesterday. Tonight is more helm work, but I expect I will be applying primer tomorrow and over the weekend to get to my desired 4 coat thickness. Between the messed up order and getting sick last week I am feeling a bit behind. However, I think I will be able to meet the May goal of having the deck painted.
              John Forsythe

              '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
              Past Affairs:
              '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

              Comment


              • #82
                Wow...That can sure slow you down when they do that...
                Just got to keep adding time little by little :GoodJob:
                Helmar Joe Johanesen
                1959 Skagit 20ft Offshore, 1959 Skagit 16ft Skimaster,
                1961 17ft Dorsett Catalina.1958 Uniflite 17 ft
                Outboards: 2.5 Bearcats, 3 50hp White shadow Mercs
                2 40hp Johnsons, several smaller Old kickers for a total of 12

                Our Sister club
                http://www.goldenstateglassics.com

                Oh, and Where is Robin Hood when you need him??

                Comment


                • #83
                  Little by little...

                  3rd coat on today. 4th tomorrow. I took some pics but can't post right now because I am at work with no USB cable....
                  John Forsythe

                  '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                  Past Affairs:
                  '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Here are some shots of the helm in progress. The original mock up still has the steering gear in it, but it will get moved over once the gluing and screwing is complete and the helm is actually mounted to the bulkhead. The wood is birch. Ply for the big facing pieces, and hardwood for the sides and top. The sides are two pieces laminated together to get the depth needed. They are held together with biscuits and some glue. Pretty sturdy!

                    The insides will get cheap fir to allow for mounting to the bulkhead without screws showing on the outside. Interior screws will be nice stainless jobs with finish washers.

                    To tie the two ply pieces together so that they don't wear and chip, I plan on using a piece of aluminum bent to the correct angle and screwed in on the bottom. It should look nice with the 60s era MerCruiser dash plate that I am going to use.

                    And the Sherre Ann Glasspar in the background is my friend Ron's SeaFair Sedan ('63). He has the sweet planer and a good table saw, as well as the woodworking know how to get all those complex angles to work correctly. Thanks Ron!
                    Attached Files
                    John Forsythe

                    '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                    Past Affairs:
                    '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Here we have some shots of the upper deck with primer on it. Exciting, I know

                      This is after 3 coats. First two still had some red dust from the original gelcoat as well as the filler. Made the whole thing pinkish! This latest coat is the first that really covered all the see through bits from the first 2. I plan on doing one more coat tonight then it is on to last bits of fill.

                      Due to being sick and the messed up order, I may not achieve my May target of getting paint on. It will be close though! No sense rushing these things. If I make it fine, if not, there are still 2 months until the salmon open up...
                      Attached Files
                      John Forsythe

                      '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                      Past Affairs:
                      '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        More work on the 404 over the long weekend.


                        The roof, as expected, was/is highly problematic. I didn’t get to work as much on Saturday as I would have liked, but after much consideration, the wife and I decided on windshield placement. It fits nicely, but looking at the pictures of the original, it does fall short. It just isn’t big enough! The factory windshield comes further back and goes further forward than what I have. It looks nice, but it just isn’t correct. Maybe some day I'll find a donor boat with the correct one, but until then it will do the job nicely.


                        After bolting the windshield to the roof, it did as I expected: the deck pulled up in the corners as the bolts were tightened. This helped straighten some of the roofline, but not all of it. The good news is that with the flush fit, I will only need to weather strip the underside to keep the water out. Much easier to source than wide trim like the old windshields use.

                        Tackling the roof line from the windshield back was a bear. It is really deformed. Lots of dips and rises. It is so bad, that at one point when I was taking a break in the cabin, I looked at it and you can actually see the deformation from underneath. Not sure why I never noticed it before. Lots of filling and sanding Sunday and Monday. I have it down to one last small section to sand down and I think I’m going to call it. It isn’t perfect, but it will have to do. I feel like I’d be chasing it for months trying to get it spot on. It will get a couple of coats of primer and one last guide coat to even it up and that will be that.

                        Forward of the windshield is good though. There are two spots right in front of it that dip a bit. I’m going to put two more bolts in there to pull it up and tight and call it good. I'll have to make them from hex bolts, but it isn't too tough with a vise and an angle grinder... There are two dips on both sides of the hatch brace that I am going to leave alone. They are symmetrical and I don’t want to try and get them to match…

                        Outside of that portion of the hatch, the rest of the roofline is perfect (or close enough!). No fills needed. Sanding on the bow and the gn’ls is also as expected, relatively straight with a few fills needed. I have more repairs to do by the corner of the sides of the cabin windows where my paint stripper ruined the gelcoat. There is a bit of a rise on the very tip of the bow by the nav light, but I’m not going to tackle that. I can have either a slight rise obscured by the light, or a slight slant that doesn’t belong, also obscured by the light. The stern also has the same effect at both ends at the transom where the deck rises up a bit. I’m not sure if this is by design or just from age, but again, I’m leaving them alone since they are symmetrical.

                        I expect I will finish the sanding on the roof top tonight and then tackle the remainder of it Wed/Thur. I’d like to have Friday night to clean up and set up all of the new booth plastic, and filters, etc. I'll also re-mask the rub rail so that I can blend the paint with the existing that I put on when I installed the railing If I can get that in place then it will be paint on Saturday morning. Woohoo! If not, then Saturday afternoon. Also woohoo! If the splashwell gives me extra grief, I can see paint getting pushed out to Sunday. At any rate, I should have a blue boat this weekend.

                        Pics are of the whole thing with guide coat on it prior to sanding.
                        Attached Files
                        John Forsythe

                        '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                        Past Affairs:
                        '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Happy Monday everyone.

                          This weekend saw more work on the project. My wife is about done with me!

                          Friday and Saturday were spent taking off all the old masking tape and papers, re-masking, cleaning up, and building out the "booth". What a job! The previously painted edges at the rub rail had to be blended into the primer, which was not difficult. I even got to run the single longest piece of tape I think I have ever done when I covered the rail from stbd all the way to port on a single pull of 4 inch masking tape.

                          Sunday morning bright and early and with good weather, I set out for the first coat of paint on the topsides! WooWoo!

                          As usual, the Supermarine paint is pretty easy to work with and didn't present any problems. Rolling and tipping solo took me about an hour and a half to apply. For a first coat, it looks pretty good. There are two spots of concern that I am keeping an eye on though. My last big repairs on the side gnl's are rough. I used a spray primer on those areas and sanded it down, but it isn't laying as flat as the rest of the boat is. Tonight when I go out for coat number 2, I am going to start there. If the paint fills the roughness, which I expect it will, I'll leave it alone. If not, I will clean the paint off and then hit it with a 230 grit to smooth it out some.

                          Attached are various shots a few hours after painting. I think the paint is still wet at the time of the photos, hence the super shine. Having worked with this on the bottom, I expect excellent coverage and shine when it is all done.
                          Attached Files
                          John Forsythe

                          '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                          Past Affairs:
                          '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            No painting last night. My dust tarp fell off of its duct tape and landed on the boat. In the process, it decided to stick to some of the not quite dry paint on the top. Removing it pulled some of my freshly applied 1st coat off! Grrr... There were also a few areas that were still tacky, which was surprising as I thinned 20%. I let it sit last night after removing the cover and drank beer with the wife instead.

                            This morning I checked on it before leaving for work. The parts that were tacky are now dry, with the exception of where I used the spray primer. If those two sections are tacky when I get home tonight, I'm going to sand it down and take the slower road of using more Rustoleum primer. It holds the paint well. It will set me back a day or so, but no biggie. I'd rather the paint stick than come up in 3 months...
                            John Forsythe

                            '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                            Past Affairs:
                            '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Painting continues.

                              I ended up having to strip those tacky portions off. They just weren't drying to my taste. The paint comes off pretty quick using thinner when it isn't dry! The fixed surfaces were sanded smooth and blended in with the freshly applied paint. Since then, the paint has been behaving great. I thinned to 25% for the second and third application to give it a nice easy base. The last 2 coats (yes, I have 5 on it!) have been thinned to 20%. This has been working great. The paint is setting up nicely and drying in about 4 hours. I plan on putting 2 more coats on for a total of 7. This should give me plenty of material for sanding and polishhing. The surface is rough in spots or has small artifacts, so I will be taking a mil or two off for sure.

                              Once these last two coats are on, I intend to let it sit and cure up. I'll probably do some spot polishing as I attach deck hardware and the windshield. Other than that, it will get a month or two before I cut it.
                              John Forsythe

                              '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                              Past Affairs:
                              '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Painting is done! 7 coats on the topside. I still have about half a gallon left, so I should be able to use it on the trailer in the comming month or two when it gets rebuilt.

                                I removed all of the masking and covers last night except for the window wedges. Ran out of time.

                                No sanding done yet on either the top or bottom, that is to come later. I'm pretty happy with it so far!

                                Here are a few shots with both colors. And a reminder of how awful it looked when I brought it home...
                                Attached Files
                                John Forsythe

                                '59 Bellboy 404 - Pretty Girl
                                Past Affairs:
                                '61 Marathon - Jammie Dodger

                                Comment

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