Making my Seafair structurally sound

[neverendingproject]

With all this nice weather it's time to tear into my 1960 Seafair Sedan to see what time and water has done to the poor girl.



As you can see it's not good news but that was expected. Actually it might be good news after all because there's a bit of a hook in the hull and I may be able to straighten it out when I bed the new stringers in. This is what I found below the new transom I removed.



Yes it's always good to check the work of the previous owner. The good news is the new transom was easy to remove with just a utility knife and a large screwdriver. The floor was also removed with a utility knife and a little muscle. My plan is to put the boat on blocks so it's nice and square then proceed with the transom before doing the stringers. The transom looks straight forward using two layers of 3/4" exterior plywood using glass mat and vinylester resin to laminate everything together. Should I use 1708 over the whole thing once it's in and tabbed?

The floor is another matter because I plan on sandwiching the rear two feet or so between two pieces of plywood and screwing everything together to make it nice and flat while I install the stringers in hopes of eliminating or reducing the hook in that part of the hull which was a result of a few years on a trailer that was too short. Does this sound like a good plan?

[Tim_Mattson]

Alan ,
I`m with you on the weather,even have the same job to do.
Looks like we both have what looks like an old pallet for structure,these slats are more to hold the Fiberglass shape than for real strength.
I`m leaning toward taller stringers that go farther forward.I`d keep them spaced so water can escape the bow which also could use a sump area with acces for a pump.This means it will be wider than 4` so two sheets of plywood will be set up crossways.
My cabin door threshold has leaked at times when tipped low in front and heavy rain caught me without a cover so it will get some new corner tabbing and maybe even plastic over wood at the lowest portion.
I used 80 or so Silicon Bronze screws in the old floor as a band-aid awhile back ,but some long trips on the Sound have loosened her up.
My goal is to help the hull shed water versus swallowing it where it will wick into transom and structure everytime it sees a real Rainfall.
Now if we can pull these repairs off before our Monsoons in October we`ll be ready for 50 more years of use.
TimM

[TheBronze]

Yummy! Looks like the inside of my bell boy when I tore it up.

For my replacement transom and floor, I went with 1708. The new work is nice and solid. I built it up similar to what you are planning, 3/4 ply, thickened where it attaches to the transom and between layers. I also laid out the 1708 on the final interior facing piece before I sandwiched it to the first piece. Much easier to work with on saw horses than vertical in the boat. The end result is a rediculously strong transom. Consider that the original glass in the 404 at least, was only intended as a water barrier. My Glasspar was the same when I did the repair earlier this year.

Good luck, take your time and post lots of pictures!

[neverendingproject]

Hey Tim, what would the taller stringers do besides make you hit your head more in the cabin?
So you're doing your Seafair also? Never woulda thought someone nearby would be working on the same thing in the same Seafair before I found this forum. Looks like my stringers are toast along the full length so I'll be cutting the cabin bulkhead out Guess this would be a good time to replace the 1/4" mahogany ply along the gunnels. I have a feeling Plywood Supply is going to become my second home for a while.

John, did you find a difference in build quality between your 404 and your Glasspar? Mine looks like a Friday afternoon job. I think it was built in Petersburg, VA.

[Tim_Mattson]

Alan ,
The new stringers will be straddling the doorway so inside floor should remain as was.I`ll end up with a small step or something with false floor to reveal a sump at the doorway is what is in my mind.Maybe one on each side of the wall.
I`d leave that wall in place and work to it from both sides,then slip one pc thru a hole to tie the two together with fasteners and glass.
Taller floors will allow for some canting and sloping to manage water on the decks.And adding more flotation.
My cockpit sides were replaced with Mahogeny door frames I scored from a remodel.The 1`` solid wood needed some beveling at the top to fit the trim and just a little wedge cut to fit the transom notch.
Lots of Bleach and warm water saved most of my wood.Days of soaking had it almost spot-free except the lowest portion of cabin wall.
I really don`t like the weight of 3/4`` ply wood so I`ll look for some
1/2`` and wet out both sides.
I heard a boatbuilder say out loud onetime,"Anybody can Overbuild a Boat,build it just strong to do the job and you still have room for a decent payload."
My Fridge almost ended my Seafair plan as it failed in the Seattle heat.........thought my repair budget was going to go to Sears but a quick thawing and it`s cooling our milk again.....
BTW ,I got a spare Dustless grinder you might want to use for the heavy grinding.......at 6``,loaded with 40 grit,it really wipes out the old surface but you need a good vac that has a add-on filter or you`ll ionize and put a positive charge on all that dust as it blows thru the hose.A better filter from Sears or the hardware store will make most any shop vac a whole lot better.
The bag will weigh around 15 lbs as it gets filled a time or two on a typical job.This keeps the boat from becoming an inch thick!
TM

[TheBronze]

Alan,

That is an interesting question. The 404, when I got it, was a complete basket case. The entire interior had to be thrown out, even the bulkheads. There was a lot of rot in all sorts of places and so many holes from "good ideas" that its hard to tell if it was due to those or bad design. I will say that the main bulkhead was nicely attached and took some good grinding and reefing with a crowbar to remove. The overall glass work seems to have held up over the years and where the wood wasn't completely rotted out, I've had to grind pretty extensively to remove old stuff. The stringers in the Bell Boy are superior to that of my Marathon, hands down, by virtue of being glass inserts, vs wood (inserts, not formed with the hull). 50+ years on, and the only signs of wear are holes from attaching the screws for the floor. Not bad. The other thing I like about how the 404 was built is the way the stringers tied into the transom. Super strong!

These things being said, I think that where Glasspar excelled, was in overall design, fit and finish. The pieces are precisely fit. Hardware is plentiful and cast or extruded aluminum (I still have my original cleats and they are perfect). The gelcoat is very thick and still withstands sanding and compounding fairly well. The Bell Boy looks like it was built by a naval ship yard (corners cut where possible, built like a tank everywhere else). oh yeah! it was built by a shipyard! The hull is perfect - for a mine sweeper! (I got a million of them) The Glasspars have that fantastic patented hull with the deep entry flattening out to the rear. Tritt and company knew what they were dong for sure...I can't say how the 404 rides as I haven't floated her yet, but my marathon, while only 14 feet, sure is a nice ride in the flat, and can handle amazingly rough water in the chop - just hang on! My friend has a Seafair Sedan and I love it. The ride is fantastic.

Also, my boat was built in Sant Anna, CA and that may have something to do with build quality vs a secondary yard away from the big boss.

The best part of getting in there, I think, is seeing deficient areas and building it not for an assembly line, but for yourself. I think that will make the difference in the end. It's how I approached the Marathon refit that I did, and how I am approaching everything I do on the Bell Boy.

[ChuckB]

Alan, there does seem to be a quality differrence between the Boats built in California, close to Bill Tritt, and those built in Olympia, as most of our local Glasspars were. Not so much in the glass, but in the quality of the wood used and in some cases, fully soaking the cloth in resin over the floor and tabbing bulkheads etc. The hull design and the overall look to the boat were Glasspars strengths. they were never built as stout as the local skagits and bellboys. But the ride is much easier on the body, just ask ChuckC. I used to take my '16 del Mar out to No Point and Foulweather Bluff without being pounded to death. And many years ago, rode in a Seafair Sedan over the Columbia Bar to and from Illwaco and out of Aberdeen.
On your Seafair, there is a weak spot right around where the bulkheads attach, the hull flexes there. Many on the Glasspar site have doubled the center and the larger side stringers to stiffen the hull to dissipate the energy rather than let it bend the hull.
Good Luck, and by the way, Midway plywood is also a good resource.
ChuckB

[Skagitguy]

Hey be nice.The Skagit's do ride a little harder when the waters are "once a summer" pounding condition. Besides it keeps my body young....i think. ChuckC

[ChuckB]

That's why they were built stout!

[neverendingproject]

Tim,
I think I see what you're saying about the taller stringers. More floatation and less rot is always good!
Did you soak the mahogany to remove the black spots? It would be nice if I could save most of mine but some is just plain rotten. Glad to hear you're still on track to start the restoration, I bet it's second nature to you by now.
Dustless grinder??? That's brilliant! I can't believe I don't have one of those already. Do you use one of those add on shrouds for a 4 1/2" grinder or the larger, variable speed grinders used for buffing? Thanks for the offer but now I have an excuse to get another toy...I mean tool.

John,
So what I got from your post is that Glasspars are far superior to Bell Boys unless you're playing bumper boats? Kidding everyone, didn't mean to start anything
I do like the aluminum trim as it does fit nicely but the glasswork and some woodwork seems rushed. You make a good point about improving on the assembly line manufacturing. I've given up on keeping it completely original which is making this project more fun.

Chuck B,
I thicker center stringer makes sense. I would think plywood would be stronger yet. Is the site you mentioned classicglasspars.com? Midway plywood is the place I was thinking of. Glad to hear it's a good place, all I knew about it was they have marine plywood so I figured their selection should be decent.

[TheBronze]

No, what I meant to say was that Glasspars built in Santa Anna are superior

As for bumper boats...hm...

[Tim_Mattson]

[quote="neverendingproject, post: 19157"]Tim,
I think I see what you're saying about the taller stringers. More floatation and less rot is always good!
Did you soak the mahogany to remove the black spots? It would be nice if I could save most of mine but some is just plain rotten. Glad to hear you're still on track to start the restoration, I bet it's second nature to you by now.
Dustless grinder??? That's brilliant! I can't believe I don't have one of those already. Do you use one of those add on shrouds for a 4 1/2" grinder or the larger, variable speed grinders used for buffing? Thanks for the offer but now I have an excuse to get another toy...I mean tool. [quote]
Alan ,
I have a pair of the Fein 6 `` random orbitals.Just replaced brushes on both and now have tools that spin like they should.
The smaller Dewalt 5`` with dust -port can work good too,even makes use of the worn 6`` pads as you can get one more use on pads that get edges dinged.It doesn`t spin at 6000 rpms like the all or nothing Fein.
I use the 3-m Dustless pads (with many holes)so it doesn`t matter where you put it,just centered.
I used plain old Bleach in warm water to treat all the mahogeny.Even the two layers on the transom came out good.
I`d really consider not taking out the bulkhead if at all possible,the hull shape will move if you cut too much free at once.I like to establish the first 8` of hull before whacking any of the bulkhead stuff free.
Trust me on this one,you don`t want it EXACTLY like the factory......
Totally different motivation than from the enthusiast trying to make it better.
Also note the trim and little stuff do add up to a stronger hull,once it all slowly starts getting removed by owners ,the hulls start to loosen up.
Mine is now on blocks.......just got to pull the trigger and dig in.
Tim M