Stuff needed for Saratogan restoration

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

I need a few things to complete the Saratogan restoration.

1) any info on working with Formica would be appreciated.

2) Any info on working with Plexiglas, especially cutting would be appreciated.
The stuff I have is 1/4 inch thick.

3) I need some mild steel (cold rolled). About a foot of 4 inch angle iron, 1/4" wall thickness. Ten inches would do.

4) 1/2" steel plate about 11 inches wide X 36 inches long. This to modify the boat cradle so I can get the boat level.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

McSkagit

Tim,
I am a stone mason so I don't have much info on Formica other than how to tear it out. I have worked with some Plexiglas before and I was able to purchase a blade for my skill saw from the Plexiglas vendor who sold it to me. Once I had that blade it was very easy to cut. Hope this helps a little.

Joe

Plex cutting

I need a few things to complete the Saratogan restoration.

1) any info on working with Formica would be appreciated.

2) Any info on working with Plexiglas, especially cutting would be appreciated.
The stuff I have is 1/4 inch thick.

3) I need some mild steel (cold rolled). About a foot of 4 inch angle iron, 1/4" wall thickness. Ten inches would do.

4) 1/2" steel plate about 11 inches wide X 36 inches long. This to modify the boat cradle so I can get the boat level.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

McSkagit

Hi Tim, good to see you made it.
We have been cutting plex with a metal blade in a saber saw. I run it just fast enough that it melts as you go.
If I go to fast, it leave like a slag behind and has to be sanded off.
Kind of like with a cutting torch, it some times closes up behind your cut.

Anyway, I take the shoe off the saber saw and cover it with Duct tape and leaved the paper on the plex.

For straight cuts, I have clamped a blanked with a straight edge to run a Zip router for clean cuts.

The trick is to have it cutting right at the melting point, this way its less likely crack on you round tight radius's using the saber saw.

[Nomad55]

Hi Tim,

I've done a fair amount of Formica work, what info do you desire? If you've done any wood veneer work it is very similar.

[skagit 25]

Info for Ride!

Will trade formica secrets for ride on June 6.

Formica is easy to use with correct tools: Table saw; trim router; roller, file.

Use table saw to cut formica to "size"; which should be at least 1/2" larger than needed on all sides (make sense?).

Use adhesive to adhere to counter top material, roll out air with heavy roller. Use trim router to cut excess edge material and sink bowl cutout. File formica edge at 45* angle.

Do not use skil saw/hand saw on formica as it will chip it out.

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Formica

Hi Tim,

I've done a fair amount of Formica work, what info do you desire? If you've done any wood veneer work it is very similar.

Hello Nomad55. Thanks and yes, no problem on the ride. I have two areas for Formica or laminate verneer. The largest and most complex is the head, walls and perhaps the overhead in the head. Was vinyl which didn't look very good. There is a shower in the head, so thinking Formica is the way to go. Fairly complex shapes, so will make patterns.

My concern is cutting the stuff....so as to not chip or shatter it. I've seen the use of a router to do the final trim.

The smaller formica is the galley counter top. Decided to do away with the stainless galley. It wasn't made very well and had some serious dents.
May recycle the stainless into heat shields for the galley stove.

I talked to the gal at the hardware store and she said Formica comes in a roll. About $2.50 / sq ft. That sound right?

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide..........

Tim

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Cutting plexiglas

Tim,
I am a stone mason so I don't have much info on Formica other than how to tear it out. I have worked with some Plexiglas before and I was able to purchase a blade for my skill saw from the Plexiglas vendor who sold it to me. Once I had that blade it was very easy to cut. Hope this helps a little.

Joe

Thanks for the info. I'll look for a special plaxiglas blade for my saw. I've seen special drill bits for plexiglas advertised. Don't have any holes to drill however.

Tim

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Hi Tim, good to see you made it.
We have been cutting plex with a metal blade in a saber saw. I run it just fast enough that it melts as you go.
If I go to fast, it leave like a slag behind and has to be sanded off.
Kind of like with a cutting torch, it some times closes up behind your cut.

Anyway, I take the shoe off the saber saw and cover it with Duct tape and leaved the paper on the plex.

For straight cuts, I have clamped a blanked with a straight edge to run a Zip router for clean cuts.

The trick is to have it cutting right at the melting point, this way its less likely crack on you round tight radius's using the saber saw.

Hi Joe,
Well first I want to offer a hardy "THANK YOU" for this cool website and message forum. Thank you hardly seems enough, but my first born is already taken. I think back to the situation five years or so back and have to smile.
Sweet!

On the plexiglas issue, some years back I cut the windows for Markham's Skagit 20. 1/8" plexi which shattered when I tried to cut it with a sabre saw.
So I have thicker material now, 1/4". Sounds like a fairly fine tooth blade and keeping the speed down to minimize the heat and melting......? Do I have that correct?

Thanks again for all the support and positive attitude over the years! Wishing you and Carol a fantastic 09!

Tim aka McSkagit

P.S. I think I'm hitting the wrong button for reply. Do I hit the quick reply button?

Plex cutting

Hi Joe,
Well first I want to offer a hardy "THANK YOU" for this cool website and message forum. Thank you hardly seems enough, but my first born is already taken. I think back to the situation five years or so back and have to smile.
Sweet!

On the plexiglas issue, some years back I cut the windows for Markham's Skagit 20. 1/8" plexi which shattered when I tried to cut it with a sabre saw.
So I have thicker material now, 1/4". Sounds like a fairly fine tooth blade and keeping the speed down to minimize the heat and melting......? Do I have that correct?

Thanks again for all the support and positive attitude over the years! Wishing you and Carol a fantastic 09!

Tim aka McSkagit

P.S. I think I'm hitting the wrong button for reply. Do I hit the quick reply button?

Hi Tim and thank you

I have been using a metal cutting blade which is very fine and I would say I was running the saw at about half speed. I didn't look at the RPM's to see what full speed was but if you cut too fast, it melts and leaves a plastic slag trail. At that point, I just slowed it down to about half speed.
So far, no cracking or splitting.

[Nomad55]

Hello Nomad55. Thanks and yes, no problem on the ride. I have two areas for Formica or laminate verneer. The largest and most complex is the head, walls and perhaps the overhead in the head. Was vinyl which didn't look very good. There is a shower in the head, so thinking Formica is the way to go. Fairly complex shapes, so will make patterns.

My concern is cutting the stuff....so as to not chip or shatter it. I've seen the use of a router to do the final trim.

The smaller formica is the galley counter top. Decided to do away with the stainless galley. It wasn't made very well and had some serious dents.
May recycle the stainless into heat shields for the galley stove.

I talked to the gal at the hardware store and she said Formica comes in a roll. About $2.50 / sq ft. That sound right?

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide..........

Tim

Tim
Skagit 25 is the one seeking the ride, but then again who isn't? And his tips on cutting are right on although I use a plain old utility knife to score and snap. I have carbon tip style one but find the utility knife works just fine and I use Irwin blades available at most lumber/home improvement stores of your choice. Much stronger than generic brands, change blade often.The one caution I have is that the edge of the Formica is darn near razor sharp in itself. For this application go with the really smelly contact cement rather than the latex type and work in a _well_ ventilated area and if you have a resporator I highly recommend using it. The price quote is about right. Depending on just how much area, color choices,same color for both areas(?) you should call around to see if any shops have some remnants.
Check carpet and flooring suppliers, cabinet shops. WilsonArt makes some very cool patterns and colors. Good luck

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Hello Nomad55,
Thanks for the info on Formica. I did a small Formica counter top about 16 years back. Don't remember much about the stuff.

No problem on a ride. I haven't been around the old (fiberglassic) message board much. Can I get your name? I see you are in Bellingham.

Thanks again,

Tim McSkagit

[Helmar]

Plex fitting in the frames

Hi Tim.
Just learned another trick with the Plexi and fitting it into the frames.
I had done the cutting just a little fat knowing I would have Sand off at least 1/16 to 3/32 from places.
After setting the plexi on the frames, I found I was able to take a sharpee pen and was able to get a mark on the plexi for a guide.

Then laying Flat on the table with a blanket under it, I took your basic DeWalt small Grinder, the same one you would use for grinding Welds flat with.
I was able to hold it at a right angle and without much pressure, able to Melt away ( and sealing the seams ) the plastic little by little.
Once the plastic cooled down, I was able to just snap it right off out of my way.
This saved Tons of block sanding time with 80 grit to get it to fit.

[Tim McCrain]

Laminate tips

Tim,
I used to do a lot of laminate work, here are a few tips:

1) Cutting laminate on a table saw can be tricky, I usually preferred to pre-cut slightly oversize with laminate shears, double edged shears which act much like sheet metal nibblers, cutting out a strip instead of shearing, and will cut without breaking the laminate, which is what will happen if you try aircraft or sheet metal shears. You can cut curves this way. A straight edge and scoring knife are the way to go for straight sheet cuts.

2) The way the pros template areas captured by walls, etc., that have to be laminated in place, is to use strips of cardboard cut to 3-4 inches wide instead of a sheet of paper or cardboard. You work your way around the perimeter of the area that you're templating, fitting cardboard pieces with scissors / knife as necessary, taping each one in place, overlapping the previous piece and gluing them together with a hot melt glue gun. Much easier than trying to work with a sheet, and you get a really accurate template. If you need to mark anything in the field of your template, you can tape a sheet of paper to the bottom of the template frame and then mark these areas on the paper. This gives structure to the paper and insures a good tight pattern. I learned this method from guys who were working with sheets of material that was expensive enough that a mistake meant you were looking for another job.

3) Weldwood makes a gel cement (available at Home Depot) that really helps with the runny, drippy, gets-on-everything tendency of contact cement. Lots of ventilation and a respirator are required. I really recommend staying away from the latex stuff for this application. A very low nap roller is the way to go for application.

4) You can buy scoring tools, but with a cheap putty knife, a grinder and five minutes you can make a better one than you can buy anywhere. It will leave an edge that only requires a light draw filing with a mill cut file to be finished. I usually did my finish work this way and didn't really use a router for trimming much. The excess glue and hard laminate chips seize up router bit guide bearings pretty quickly.

5) I always preferred Wilsonart over Formica. Wilsonart used to do smaller production runs than Formica, which meant that their product was 6-12 months "fresher" than Formica, resulting in a less brittle sheet which was easier to work without splintering, breaking, chipping, etc. If you can find a cabinet shop or other business that buys from E.B. Bradley (wholesale only) and will order your laminate for you, that would be the way to go. Bradley sells more laminate than anyone around and their product is fresher as a result. They also store their sheets flat and only roll them just before they go out the door. You really don't want to try to work with a sheet that has taken a set from being rolled up for a few months.

Hope this helps,

Tim

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Hi Tim,

I received your email and offer. Thanks! ALso thanks for the detailed information on working with laminate. I became aware of the pattern method you mention from watching the crew down at Port Townsend Shipwright Coop. They use 1/8" door skins for their patterns. Your tip about "fresh laminate" makes sense.

I'll email you some pics tomorrow of the head, walls, etc. I sent a reply to your email, but don't know if I can answer directly back to you. Let me know if you got that email?

I'll see if I can find a supplier of Wilsonart laminate.

Thanks again,

Tim

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Good tip, Joe. All the little secrets of the trade are real time savers. Thanks!

I need to do a test fit on one of the side cabin windows. These were clamped between the inner and outer fiberglass window frames. A plywood spacer kept the plexiglas centered and gave something to screw the inner frame to. A "U" shaped white rubber gasket sealed the window (supposedly) and was pinched by the frames. Skagit then filled any gaps with conventional glazing compound. Well, this didn't work and the 31 windows leaked like a sieve.

My plan is to bolt the plexiglas directly to the cabin structure with silicon sealer. The initial problem is that the spacing changes and will require modification of the fiberglass frames. I'm going to do one of the smaller windows soon to get an idea of the complexity of the issue.

The front windows are set in rubber weather strip. The long sliders are in wood frames with stainless/ teflon/felt tracks.

A while back a cable channel I saw working with hot plexiglas. They hung the sheet in a vertical oven. When at about 250 degrees, the guy pulled it out and laid it like a blanket over the mold. Looked so easy!

Thanks again, Joe