16ft Bell Boy Restore

[Helmar]

Excellent workmanship ! ! !

I enjoy studying your pictures. Every time you have a new post, I get to learn a little something new. Sometimes, it's how to do it, or technique to do it, or the tools to do it with. It's always very interesting. I'm following your build very closely, and I will most likely use some of your techniques and ideas. I have been looking through your earlier restoration posts to see how you designed other projects. I'm trying to figure out some designs I want to try on my boat.

I'm still working on my next progress update, I hope to be finished in a few days. I'm looking forward to your next post........

Don't forget, this just My way of doing things and how I was trained.

Here is just a few pic's of moving forward. I have the other stringer cut and now making the cradle system as so once these are set, they will be held in place with weight on top of them to hold them to the hull while setting in the fiberfiller to cure. The hardest part is keeping my 205 lbs out and off the hull bottom so I have to suspend myself with planks that are setting on the chine edge.

I was able to get so close I didn't leave very much space for the fiberfiller but really don't need it. I used the power plane to get it even closer when I had to change the degrees.

Once all of these are in place, they will be covered with the stitched roving so the stringers are pretty much nothing other than something to hold the stitched roving in place until its cured. I wanted them to be a little wider than the 1/2" stringers that were in it so this is white cedar that is 1".

I will keep plugging away at it.

[pats]

Helmar,

I have a couple of questions about the material your using...........

Once all of these are in place, they will be covered with the stitched roving so the stringers are pretty much nothing other than something to hold the stitched roving in place until its cured. I wanted them to be a little wider than the 1/2" stringers that were in it so this is white cedar that is 1".

Why did you choose white cedar? Is there something about it that makes it better for stringers??

The floor will be fiberglass matt and cloth over PVC 1/2" foam board, then the adhesive closed cell flotation foam under the floor. This thing should Bounce over rock croppings under the surface of the water..
I am keeping a close eye on weight. I think once I am done, I should be damn close to the proper weight it should be.

Do you fiberglass both sides of the foam board? or, just one side?

I am thinking materials for my boat, and wondering if these would be better than the plywood I had planned on using???

[Helmar]

Helmar,

I have a couple of questions about the material your using...........



Why did you choose white cedar? Is there something about it that makes it better for stringers??



Do you fiberglass both sides of the foam board? or, just one side?

I am thinking materials for my boat, and wondering if these would be better than the plywood I had planned on using???

Well, its what we had for one and cedar tends to last longer. I have seen stringers made out of MDO plywood, seen then made from Fir. I could have just made up a mock up stringer and then coated it with the stitched roving.

The main thing I was going as light weight as I could as using the PVC foam board but with several layers of mat and roving. Once I get closer you will see as I will have pictures of the process.

The cabin bulkhead and map dash I am thinking might be done out of foam PVC board as well. It will add a little more weight to the boat but nothing will ever rot out..

John Nelson has made most of his Uniflite out of PVC and was also to bend a tight radius, like around a 1qt paint can, mat, roving, mat, roving.

I might give this more thought as I get closer as of course, you just paint this product were I might want the map dash and bulkheads out of mahogany plywood..
I am kind of leaning that way as would like to jazz this up some and not have just a painted looking fishing boat.

The transom was put in with the Green plywood, super dry to the point, I cut the Fiberlay P-16 fiberglass resin with the Fiberlay styrene monomer to thin out the resin even more. I was able to let the wood soak it up. I mean it Really soaked it up.

When the floor goes down, there will be no screws, just glassed down. Strips of Mat on the tops of the stringers, saturated with resin, then the fiberglassed side of the foam board goes down with some weight on top to make sure its touching everywhere..

The thing is, if you use the PCV board with mat and roving, it will not hold a screw. You have to use nuts and bolts for your fasteners and well, there are some places that is not so easy to do..

I wish I had some pictures of John Nelsons build as he was looking for more cockpit space so he built a stainless steel pipe mounting system off the back of his Uniflite and did away with the splashwell and used the PVC across the back of his boat to give himself more freeboard in rough water..

Once I get the stringers in, floor down, then I will decide how much mahogany I want showing.. Hell, I might just make a show boat out of this one as I really like these old Bell Boys just as much as my Skagits.

So, if I do these stringers like I am doing, covering them with the stitched roving (two or three layers) and then at least a layer of stiched roving between the stringers on the hull, then adding the closed cell adhesive floatation foam under the floor in between the stringers, this this hull should Bounce over rock croppings.

When I am buying any wood, I use my Moisture Meter. In fact this company. http://www.lignomatusa.com/meters/mini-ligno-md/
Mine is not digital as I have had it for Years, mine just has lights that give me the moisture in percents. I stick the end grain for the most part. When they say Kiln dried wood anymore, it just means they made a attempt to dry it out a little..
The good stuff has to come from like Edensaw like I used up in Port Townsend or CrossCut who has all the special woods.

But then again, good dry marine plywood, glass resin the crap out of it so no moisture gets to it and its going outlast Our kids. You don't need to to nutso like I do some times.

Not that I would ever think about it, but the saying, There is more than one way to skin a cat

[Helmar]

Another quick update. Got the two stringer down in Fiberfiller. Next the two outside ones, then the keel stringer.

[Helmar]

Another quick update.
Fiberglassed the transom with some very heavy matt and took a pattern for the other outer stringers.
Oh, just another note. I stopped the first two stringers 1/8" from the transom which the gap was filled from one side until the Fiberfiller came out the other side knowing no voids. No wood exposed or wood touching wood. No moisture, if any, would not be able to transfer from the stringers to the transom or from the transom to the stringer..
If the stringers ever did rot away, they will be covered with the stitched roving.
Once I get the outer stingers in and the keel stringer in, then I will start glassing over the stringers.

[Helmar]

Well, now comes the icky part. Lots and Lots of grinding so it bunny suit time, head gear and breather with the vacuum hooked to the sander. I have one of those automatic switches so when I turn on the sander, it turns on the shop vac.
Gell inserts in my knee pads, lets see how long these 71 year old knees will hold up today.

I have two more stringers cut out with template's for the new ones but Lots of clean up still.

Here is a update for today.
One thing i want to mention is when your doing this kind of stuff, Make sure you know where your hands are at All times.
I gotten this fare with all my fingers but all it takes is one slip.
So, Go Slow.

One of the things that I noticed is, I forget some of the details. Like cutting the angles of the stringers. My band saw, like most, the table only tilts one way.
So, here is what I did, I can't remember which one I cut first but to get the angles I needed, I set my table at zero and made up these angle pieces, raized up the guide and knew I had to go slow in changing my angles as not to bind the blade.

I may have just messed up my pictures....huh..

So anyway, the first picture was the little angle guides I made up. On my stringer, I wrote down the angle it needed to be, then when I reached the next angle, I did the angle change very slowly and slipped under the next angle gauge. I did this until I had the whole stringer cut out.

I went back to the boat and fitted it and was quite surprised that even though I had plugged in the power planer and put it in the boat thinking would use it. I got lucky, no need for it and it fit just fine.

Once it was setting in place, I used one of the boards that you see I have in the boat to measure down from.. The measurements were the same to I thought, why not, lets just try to do a reverse angle cut. Pulled the one stringer I just made, and used it as a pattern but reversed the angles and well, the power planer was still in the boat but again, I got Lucky and didn't have to use it, it fit right in.

Tomorrow I will mix up the Fiberfiller and make a bed out of it for the stringers to nest on.. Then use the tongue depressor to make a good calk type or finger type fillet on both sides, just like I did with the other two stringers.

I think the hardest part is I am standing on the keel stringer with one foot and the other is out just under the chine edge trying to keep my 205lbs off of the other stingers for now.



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[Helmar]

Another update.
Did more to the transom cap to get it closer to finished. Used the big worm drive skill saw to cut the excess away across the top of it and then used the belt sander on the sides to flush it in.
Then I took the trim router and ran it across on the outside and then on the inside to get the rounded edges for the matt to lay down. Then put down two layers of matt and then to finish it, one layer of cloth will go over this. The port and starboard side of the transom, due to the gunnel to fit back down on it (The fiberglass top gunnel was only designed for a 1.5" thick transom but I went out to 2" for the newer motors in case I want to add one) That is why you see that taper on it.

Ran the plastic along the keel stringer and out towards the first two stringers to help keep the slobbering of resin all over. Started putting down the stitched roving matt, two layers, over the stringer.
Lots of time down on the old knees so this is going to take me longer than expected, but once done, the wood that is Totally sealed Cedar could rott away and it would not make any difference.

The stitched roving matt has been cut as so it covers the seams of the first layer down. Hard to explain but I will get another picture of it laying in the boat ready to be fiberglassed in.

Of course I am going to document ever step of the way on this one as its going to be a forever boat, no wood will ever need replacing so if my Great great great great grandchildren use it, it will still be good to go.

I do plan on dressing up all the fiberglassed PVC foam board with Mahogany paneling to give her that Wow factor once someone looks inside the boat., but the floor, bulkheads, map dash, splashwell, all if it will be PCV fiberglassed foam board..

I was even "thinking" of building the Engine Hatch covers like on the 19' and larger bell boys but I think John Nelson has me talked out of that due to how tall the engines are.. If I was to get nuts and put twin 35 engines on the back of her, those would cover up under the engine hatch covers...

That is something I am pondering as well but then again, the Bearcat alone is more power than she needs. More pondering on this as I get more into her.

[Helmar]

I forgot to add the pictures of what I used to round off the edges of the transom. The idea is to round it off, then use a couple layers of matt and then cloth on top. Here is what I used to round it off. The I added a picture on why I had to modify the upper area of the transom (that really serves no purpose).

My old Rockwell router I used for mostly trim work I have had since 1976 and it still works good. That is what I used to round off the edges with.

The first picture is the upper part of the boat and the bottom side of the gunnel on the port side. Its the part that sets down over the edge of the transom area. Its hanging over the boat so I was looking up at it for the picture.

The other photos shows the stitched roving that goes over the stringers and how I doubled it up. I start in the front, lay the first one down, then soup up the stringer and matt side of the roving then lay it over the stringer and just keep lapping over the next one down as I work my way to the stearn..

[Helmar]

Second stringer is in.. Now for the two outside ones, then the keel.

[Helmar]

Just went out and looked the Bell Boy this morning and all my work kicked off and looks great so far.

But, Now I am going though a reality check on her. Meaning I am having issues of going with all PVC fiberglassed foam board for the bulkheads and map dash..
I was thinking of skinning them with mahogany paneling but being foam, fiberglass and then paneling, I am adding more weight and that is not what I am wanting.
In the past, I have used the 1088 grade mahogany marine plywood in Greg James boat back I think in 2008 and its still solid as a rock. I am still leaning towards something like this, less the side paneling. I can't that if its all foam board.
This green Bell Boy is one we did at Island Boat Shop back in 2008 I think,

[Helmar]

Another quick update..
I am pretty glad that I only have the keel stringer needs to be pulled (almost out) and put back in. I am done for the day, have the ice packs on both knees so good to go.
Today I was able to get the two outer stringers glassed in. Went though 5 pints of resin. and had the shop warm so only mixed at up the resin at 1.5%. Had a big fire going in the stove, fans blowing down and at the hull so it was up to 59 degrees when I started.
We are not getting that mess you have going on up your way, it was 35 degrees last night and up to 39 outside today. Supposed to get a lot colder so I decided to go for it early today.

I will let this set real good then lay down the boards over the side stringers and pull the keel next.

[pats]

Wow..............you've made some really good progress. You'll probably have your boat near finished by the time I get a good start on mine. I really enjoy studying your pictures. Just by looking, I can see the amount of thought you've put into your techniques. I like the way you use, jigs, braces, and clamps to hold the stringers in place. Pretty ingenious. I will undoubtedly use a similar method inspired by your pictures. I need to buy a good angle finder tool, it's the one thing I don't have. I have a 64G memory stick loaded with about a million pictures of transom, stringer, and floor replacement, both pictures and videos.

I've decided to bring my boat home to work on it. It was just taking to much time and expense to travel 300 miles to work on it. I am going to uncap it, and bring home only the hull. It has the transom, floor and stringers and that is what needs repairing, the rest of the boat is fine. I think most of the wiring and controls are attached to the topcap (steering, motor controls, electrical, etc.). So basically, I'll be towing an empty hull. I am planning a trip to go get it around the 1st of March. I ran into a good deal on Craigslist. A guy sold me a 175' roll of 12'' woven roving for $50. This ought to be more than enough to do my boat. I think I have about all the materials and supplies that I need to complete the repairs (except gelcoat). Maybe the money spending part will slow down now.

As always, I'm looking forward to your next post..............

[Helmar]

Wow..............you've made some really good progress. You'll probably have your boat near finished by the time I get a good start on mine. I really enjoy studying your pictures. Just by looking, I can see the amount of thought you've put into your techniques. I like the way you use, jigs, braces, and clamps to hold the stringers in place. Pretty ingenious. I will undoubtedly use a similar method inspired by your pictures. I need to buy a good angle finder tool, it's the one thing I don't have. I have a 64G memory stick loaded with about a million pictures of transom, stringer, and floor replacement, both pictures and videos.

I've decided to bring my boat home to work on it. It was just taking to much time and expense to travel 300 miles to work on it. I am going to uncap it, and bring home only the hull. It has the transom, floor and stringers and that is what needs repairing, the rest of the boat is fine. I think most of the wiring and controls are attached to the topcap (steering, motor controls, electrical, etc.). So basically, I'll be towing an empty hull. I am planning a trip to go get it around the 1st of March. I ran into a good deal on Craigslist. A guy sold me a 175' roll of 12'' woven roving for $50. This ought to be more than enough to do my boat. I think I have about all the materials and supplies that I need to complete the repairs (except gelcoat). Maybe the money spending part will slow down now.

As always, I'm looking forward to your next post..............

Thanks for the compliment but as you know, there are lots of ways to do this. I just happened to learn it this way.

I just use your standard I would guess you call it, angle gauge but there are all kinds of them on the market. Mine was just a cheap one but accurate.

I can't seem to get my head around the fact your going to bring the hull only home. I can see the stringers and floor going in but what about the bulkheads, are you going to replace them ?

What makes it nice, my shop is less than 60 seconds from my back door at home so I can do a process and just let it cure.
Right now, I am going to let the stringers cure a couple of days and then pull the keel stringer out to replace it.

Once that stringer is in, floor down and foamed, it should start going faster except for the fact, I am going to turn over the cabin top and replace all the wood under the gunnels as mine is punky in places..
Going to play with the colors I think. Light blue hull, red gunnels and cabin top, but go white on the bridge area..

Again, thanks for the compliments.

[Helmar]

And, yet Another update
So, used the oscillating hack saw blade and grinding blades for this part. One or more of the pictures will show the tools I am using. Anyone have a better idea here how to get all this out and cleaned ?

So, use those blades to Flush cut the main keel stringer, which took a long time it seemed but, because I didn't know what was under it, I wanted to be real careful and not cutting holes in things.

Lots of digging and cleaning to do here. Looks as they cut the bottom of the stringer with a dado blade and had set it in and poured glass resin around it. But, its also rounded on each side once I get the old fiberglass goobers out. This tells me I can take the trim router to round off the bottom of the keel stringer to get as tight of a fit I can possible get. Its the clean up and prep that is a killer on these old knees.

The thing is, it needs to be Clean And Dry. Back in the day if you were going to fiberglass something To fiberglass, the rule of thumb was you need a Minimum of 75% adhesion for any structural bonds. LIke if your going to fiberglass something to the hull on the inside, frame, whatever, you need to grind it out and down to Fresh Glass for that minimum of 75%. Of course, I will go for the 100% if I can.

Once I got about 4 feet forward, this keel got really hard to cut out as the wood was good, But, Wet !!. So, all of it has to come out as things need to be 100% Bone dry for any glass work.

Oh, in one of the pictures, you will see my meat hook, don't forget to put your gloves on like me.

I have One spot clean and ready but will require much more time down on the knees.

I also covered the other stringers to keep the crap off of them and keep them clean. I used what I call Pallet Wrap which is like visqueen to cover them up with.

Also the tools, one sanding tool was purchased at Harbor Freight, which they don't last quite as long as the Dremel ones do but I can almost get two harbor freight ones for the cost of one Dremel blade.

Another thing to keep in mind is back in the 50's you had some serious competition from other builders at that time so anything New was added to the production line as they were moving though the factory. Just means one might be different to the other one for the same year of production..

This keel stinger I think I am going to different. On the wood boats, you let that main stringer show proud on the bottom of the boat. Then they would take it down with a Draw Knife. (Not this old guy, I have Power Tools) But on this one, its going to have to be proud on the inside of the boat as this sets down in to a fiberglass keel trough and I want a Snug fit. This means I am glad I did not sell my Jointer.
I can seem to run a worm drive saw better than most any other tool to make the cut. Some boats, you have a Glass keel and well, the wood just Sits on Top of the keel and you have to glass the crap out if on both sides.
This one, I fill fit it down into the keel so I will do that rounding thing with the trim router to get it to set down in the keel trough then just use a straight edge across the two outer stringer to the keel once its setting down in like it should. Me, I will use the laser pen and get my marks every 6 inches of the keel and then just use the worm drive saw to cut the excess of the top. I plan on putting a Fat marker pen mark down it and will cut on the top side giving me enough wood to trim down to my marks in the jointer. I could also do this with a power plane too. Then the trim router to kind of round off the top of that striger as so the stitched roving will lay right over it.
Oh yeah, because I have almost 3/16ths of stitched roving built up on the other stringers, I need to bring the keel stringer down that 3/16ths (well, a little more)

Ok, going to fess up on this. You know how when they put down a concrete slab, they drop it just a tad as so water will run out and not in, well because I am weird or anal about some things, I have the keel stringer going in at 1/8" lower then the outer two stringers. The other stringers on each side of the keel, is down 1/16th of the keel stringer.

So, this is something that I didn't need to do but since I am a freak with the laser, the plan was to have the aft end of the floor 1/8" lower in the center as so the water would run towards the center of the floor were the drain is. I don't think it took me a extra 15 minutes in the layout and cutting to make that happen.
Now I just need to keep the keel don starting at about 1/16th 5 feet forward and have the 1/8" drop by the transom. I can do this
One other thing I am going to do, is they stopped the keel stinger right at the air box in the front. I have enough wood for the stringer, I am going all the way up to the bow and just glass the crap out of it.

[pats]

Thanks for the compliment but as you know, there are lots of ways to do this. I just happened to learn it this way.

I just use your standard I would guess you call it, angle gauge but there are all kinds of them on the market. Mine was just a cheap one but accurate.

I can't seem to get my head around the fact your going to bring the hull only home. I can see the stringers and floor going in but what about the bulkheads, are you going to replace them ?

What makes it nice, my shop is less than 60 seconds from my back door at home so I can do a process and just let it cure.
Right now, I am going to let the stringers cure a couple of days and then pull the keel stringer out to replace it.

Once that stringer is in, floor down and foamed, it should start going faster except for the fact, I am going to turn over the cabin top and replace all the wood under the gunnels as mine is punky in places..
Going to play with the colors I think. Light blue hull, red gunnels and cabin top, but go white on the bridge area..

Again, thanks for the compliments.

Your lucky that your shop is so close. When I get my boat home, I'll have about the same setup as you. I'll have my shop and tools nearby. The reason I'm thinking about bringing home only the hull of my boat is "weight". I have a 4wd 1990 Toyota pickup (base model) with the r-22 motor. I keep it in very good shape, replacing whatever needs repaired. I like this vehicle and keep it because I can still work on it. I don't have the skills to work on the newer vehicles with all the sensors and new technology. The r-22 motor in my pickup is in good shape and strong enough to tow the boat, although not always at highway speeds. Plus, I'll be towing it from 3200' to 7000' where I live. It's a very long uphill pull, with long stretches of "middle of nowhere" highway. 107 miles between Tucumcari and Las Vegas, New Mexico without even a gas station, but it's beautiful mesa country. At any rate I'm trying to save weight. As for the bulkhead, I thought I would bring it home and use it as a template to cut a new one. I already have the bi-fold door at home. I'll do all the finish work on them at home, and re-install them when I take the hull back and put the topcap on. I have a chain fall hoist at my boat storage unit, setup ready to lift off the topcap. That's the reasoning behind bringing home just the hull. Although, I am still fluid on my plan. If I'm overlooking something please let me know as I want to be able to finish all the repair work (transom, stringers, floor, bulkhead).

I really enjoy your pictures. After seeing them and the progress you're making, I can almost see light at the end of my tunnel.

Going to play with the colors I think. Light blue hull, red gunnels and cabin top, but go white on the bridge area.

.
Are you going to use paint or gelcoat? How are you going to apply it? Spray, brush, roll it? Have you ever heard of "brushing liquid" for gelcoat (additive for smoothing brush marks).

Looking forward to your next post.....................